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Creating a mega dungeon - where to start?
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Post Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:15 pm 
 

OK, clearly this has nothing to do with collecting. I only post it here because we are all interested in the subject matter.

I will be undertaking a massive project in 2010 - creating a mega dungeon for publication. It will be rules-independent, focusing on plot and maps more than stats for the inhabitants (obviously it will be populated, but the races/purposes/motivations of the inhabitants are the important that their game stats)

If anyone has any tips on where to begin, I would love to hear them! Perhaps a list of questions I should be answering before I begin? Or at least some Do/Do Nots from those who have undertaken an endeavor like this?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

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Post Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:47 pm 
 

I'd look at other mega dungeons and see what you liked or didn't like.  For example, I consider the Dragonlance series a mega dungeon.  While the idea was intriguing and the amount of effort that went into it amazing, the end effect ended up being less than the sum of its parts for some reason.  On the other hand, the GDQ series seemed to be greater than the sum of its parts despite some major short-comings (like is Lolth really the "bad guy" or was it Eclavdra?)  What makes a mega dungeon mega good or just mega big?  I hope that helps.   8)


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:00 pm 
 

Gus Landt wrote:If anyone has any tips on where to begin, I would love to hear them! Perhaps a list of questions I should be answering before I begin? Or at least some Do/Do Nots from those who have undertaken an endeavor like this?

I have never created a mega-dungeon, but I have owned the World's Largest Dungeon.  WLD put me to sleep.  WLD also recommended banning spells like Web, changing the party makeup, etc.  WLD had too many requirements to make it function without workarounds.

Read the reviews and criticisms of WLD (and World's Largest City), and do not repeat their mistakes.

Plot, plot hooks, flavor, description . . . put excitement and mystery into the mega-dungeon.

  


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:53 pm 
 

Some good discussions about mega-dungeon/megadungeon/campaign dungeon creation at:

Dragonsfoot @ http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewt ... 15&t=18710

Knights & Knaves @ http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/phpbb/v ... m.php?f=28 in general and specifically @ http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/phpbb/v ... .php?t=168

Fin's OD&D in general @ http://odd74.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=adventures

Philotomy's OD&D musings @ http://philotomy.com/ include several good pieces on dungeon design

And the following blogs are worth checking out too (in no particular order):

http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/
http://oldguyrpg.blogspot.com/
http://grognardia.blogspot.com/
http://beyondtheblackgate.blogspot.com/
http://greyhawkgrognard.blogspot.com/
http://kellri.blogspot.com/

There are plenty more good old school blogs out there, but if you're designing a mega-dungeon, I think the above will be most useful as design resources.


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:54 pm 
 

Wow that is an admirable and slightly kooky enterprise.

John has got it right IMO.

There has to be a reason to go in, stay in, and get to the bottom. remember Tom Moldvay's awesome classic The Lost City. That is a mega dungeon that never was. The scale of it was limited by the early module format but the scope begged to be expanded upon.

Buy em all Night Below, Undermountain, WLD, etc. and see what works.

  


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:58 pm 
 

I think bejoshua brings up a good point.  Depending on the type of megadungeon you plan on creating, you have to look for different answers.  One of the things that makes the GDQ series great was the aspect of an actual journey.  Unlike something like Undermountain which is all in the same geographic location, GDQ promoted planning.  The Dragonlance campaign, while well crafted, felt like you were on rails without any choice in how things would end.

If you needed a break from a static megadungeon, you just waltz back to town and get healed/resupplied.  If you're out in the middle of nowhwere, you are forced to plan for that.  It adds something to the adventure, both from a player and DM aspect.  

Dynamic areas add to the whole experience and should be used if possible.  While making everything "special" makes everything the same, some "special" should be used to make the adventures memorable.  

Just some thoughts.


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:22 pm 
 

For a 3E perspective, these are Monte Cook's assumptions from his Dungeon a Day project.  I am not a subscriber, so can't speak to the quality of content.

http://www.dungeonaday.com/categories/assumptions

  

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Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:49 am 
 

I start with the maps.


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:30 am 
 

http://www.worldslargestdungeon.com/archive/


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:15 pm 
 

My review of Castle Zagyg may also provide some useful food for thought about was good/bad about that product, and the other products that I use to contexualize my thoughts on it: http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh ... _final.pdf


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:32 pm 
 

Yeah, I would start with the maps. At least 6 of them, using those huge engineering grids, printed out on a plotter... you know, the kind with 64 squares to the inch? The whole thing is like 5 feet by 5 feet? I used to know a store to buy those at... oh well.


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:38 pm 
 


This really is the biggest piece of crap anyone can buy. I've never heard anyone try to defend it, and I doubt even the authors' would be willing to do so. Stay well away from The World's Laegest Dungeon.


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:57 pm 
 

My buddy dropped us into a haunted Abbey while we were in search of some local monks to help us find something... turns our all the Monks are dead and there is some evil bad shit going down...

It's seems to be turning into a mega dungeon. Our DM is using mystery, clues and puzzles to keep us there out of interest. It's turning out to be really fun.

The way we got there prevents us from easily going back to town (Our cleric was banging a druid that hooked us up with some Pegasi and sent us on a little quest for something she needed to wipe out a plague of magical rabies all of the forest animal seem to be catching a case of.)


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:03 pm 
 

Gus, have a look at a series of articles called 'the Dungeon Architect' in early issues of White Dwarf.  Drop me a line if you don't have access to it.


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:57 pm 
 

otherworld wrote:Gus, have a look at a series of articles called 'the Dungeon Architect' in early issues of White Dwarf.  Drop me a line if you don't have access to it.


Roger Musson's work is brilliant:  it's worth buying a WD DVD from Ian for just those three pieces!  (They're also in The Best of WD Articles Volume #2, IIRC).


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:16 am 
 

Wow, thank you all for the advice! I've got my work cut out for me with all this prep work. :-)

grodog - thank you for all those links. Lots of great stuff!
otherworld - thank you for the suggestion. I'm reading the articles now!

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:40 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:This really is the biggest piece of crap anyone can buy. I've never heard anyone try to defend it, and I doubt even the authors' would be willing to do so. Stay well away from The World's Laegest Dungeon.


Seriously?  That bad, huh?  

I was actually thinking about picking it up, since the price for used ones on Amazon is finally starting to drop.  I've been curious about it since it came out, but I didn't want to pay the hunny-bee they were asking for it back then.


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:59 am 
 

At anything more than $20, you may end up feeling like you were royally screwed over.And that includes shipping.


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