The Acaeum Dungeons & Dragons
Collecting Forums

Research: Holmes 3rd Edition - THREE versions?
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 21, 2
Author


Prolific Collector

Posts: 721
Joined: Aug 28, 2007
Last Visit: Dec 31, 2021
Location: Brooklyn

Post Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:11 am 
 

I have two different printings of the Holmes 3rd Edition (December 1979).

Has this been covered before? I couldn't find anything by searching. I have some photos I will be posting today.

Differences:
- Product lists are different
- page 46; One has "Using the Dice" the other: "Using the Dice or Chits"
- Page 19 seems to have added a paragraph explaining Attack Rolls. and has a revised layout.


“Remember that generosity can be contagious…”  - Dave Sutherland III

eBay ID: themilford
Hidden Ebay ID: t***o


Last edited by TheMilford on Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 WWW  


Verbose Collector

Posts: 1709
Joined: Sep 03, 2003
Last Visit: Feb 24, 2026
Location: Portown

Post Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:00 am 
 

Cool. That would be news to me.

Please check against this list of differences between the 1st edition (1st printing) / 3rd edition (printing unclear at this time):

http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewt ... 15&t=18178

However, looking quickly I can see that the section on page 46 of the 3rd edition used for this list did not refer to the Chits. Looks like there may be a 1st and 2nd printing of the 3rd edition.

Great find!

Edit: made a mistake above referring to 3rd printing instead of 3rd edition. Just clarified this.


Last edited by Zenopus on Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
 WWW  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector
Subweb Admin
JG Valuation Board

Posts: 4597
Joined: Nov 08, 2002
Last Visit: Aug 06, 2026
Location: Land of 10,000 ponds

Post Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:02 am 
 

Seventh (Dec 1979)

   * Blue box with a picture of a red dragon (artwork by Sutherland)
   * Wizard logo
   * Code in the upper right is "1001"
   * Angled yellow banner in upper left says "Basic Set With Introductory Module"
   * 48-page rulebook:  Wizard logo, with "2001" in upper right.  Inside says "Third Edition, Dec 1979".  Two versions have been reported: one with an ISBN on the copyright page, and one without it
   * B2 Keep on the Borderlands (First or Second print (both have been reported), no shrinkwrap)
   * One of the following variations (listed in order of their appearance, but we didn't deem it significant enough to assign separate printings):
         o Dice chits with a "how-to-use" description and a dice coupon, all on one sheet and attached to the rulebook
         o Dice chits with a "how-to-use" description and a dice coupon, all on one sheet and unattached
         o Dice chits with a "how-to-use" description on one sheet, unattached
         o Dice chits and a "how-to-use" description on separate sheets, unattached
         o Five pre-colored dice in a small poly bag (no D10 or dice crayon)

   * Bottom of box shows rulebook, module B2 (pre-production print), and dice chits, and has a Wizard logo

This is from the site's description with somethings in bold that pertain.  I'd be interested in seeing the product lists as I have an 8th print product list that I think puts it in 1980.

ShaneG.


I reject your reality and substitute my own

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 721
Joined: Aug 28, 2007
Last Visit: Dec 31, 2021
Location: Brooklyn

Post Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:05 am 
 

Both of these have the ISBN...

Seems different enough to me since there are actual amendments to rules information... the print in the books actually differs.


“Remember that generosity can be contagious…”  - Dave Sutherland III

eBay ID: themilford
Hidden Ebay ID: t***o

 WWW  


Verbose Collector

Posts: 1709
Joined: Sep 03, 2003
Last Visit: Feb 24, 2026
Location: Portown

Post Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:11 am 
 

The ISBN information is interesting - this indicates a possibility of 3 different printings of the 3rd edition (this would require confirmation that a version without the ISBN exists).

The sheet(s) with the "how-to-use" the chits and dice coupon are separate  from the description on page 46 of the rulebook. While the sheet can be attached to the rulebook, it is often found loose in the box. I consider it to be a separate box set component rather than part of the rulebook.

When we discuss this, we need to be careful about calling the rulebook "Seventh", etc. The Acaeum uses this terminology for the box set, but different rulebooks can be found in box sets that are otherwise the same. For example, the Acaeum page indicates that the "Sixth" box set can have the Second or Third Edition rulebooks.

 WWW  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector
Subweb Admin
JG Valuation Board

Posts: 4597
Joined: Nov 08, 2002
Last Visit: Aug 06, 2026
Location: Land of 10,000 ponds

Post Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:18 am 
 

Yeah just call it the 3rd edition book and then printings can be assigned to it.
Maybe like I did City State of the World Emperor Playing Aid, as a set there is 4 printings, but individually the books and Campaign map are 2-3 printings.

ShaneG.


I reject your reality and substitute my own

 WWW  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3865
Joined: Feb 21, 2004
Last Visit: Jul 20, 2023
Location: Milford, Michigan

Post Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:31 am 
 

This is a great find.

Without getting off topic, we need to get a sticky thread that keeps this type of research up front.

I have been slowly tracking I6 modules and B3 modules because we discovered an additional printing of each (I6 for sure; still confirming B3) several years ago and it got dropped.

I6 has a confirmed second printing. The B3 still needs more confirmation.

Problem is that it takes a long time to do this stuff and it gets lost.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 721
Joined: Aug 28, 2007
Last Visit: Dec 31, 2021
Location: Brooklyn

Post Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:00 am 
 

bbarsh wrote:This is a great find.

Without getting off topic, we need to get a sticky thread that keeps this type of research up front.

I have been slowly tracking I6 modules and B3 modules because we discovered an additional printing of each (I6 for sure; still confirming B3) several years ago and it got dropped.

I6 has a confirmed second printing. The B3 still needs more confirmation.

Problem is that it takes a long time to do this stuff and it gets lost.


Agreed. I went into pretty stupid detail about the B/X sets and it too fell by.


“Remember that generosity can be contagious…”  - Dave Sutherland III

eBay ID: themilford
Hidden Ebay ID: t***o

 WWW  


Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3066
Joined: Jul 09, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 30, 2015

Post Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:41 pm 
 

bbarsh wrote:This is a great find.

Without getting off topic, we need to get a sticky thread that keeps this type of research up front.

If TheMilford can add "Research: " to the front of the thread topic, that would really help.  I've been doing so lately to try to keep all the research threads readily findable.

 YIM  

User avatar

Sage Collector

Posts: 2589
Joined: Aug 02, 2006
Last Visit: Mar 11, 2023
Location: Seattle, WA

Post Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:19 pm 
 

I'll tag my recent thread too.

bbarsh - what can you tell us about I6 and B3?  What have you found?

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 721
Joined: Aug 28, 2007
Last Visit: Dec 31, 2021
Location: Brooklyn

Post Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:40 pm 
 

deimos3428 wrote:If TheMilford can add "Research: " to the front of the thread topic, that would really help.  I've been doing so lately to try to keep all the research threads readily findable.

Done.


“Remember that generosity can be contagious…”  - Dave Sutherland III

eBay ID: themilford
Hidden Ebay ID: t***o

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 721
Joined: Aug 28, 2007
Last Visit: Dec 31, 2021
Location: Brooklyn

Post Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:41 pm 
 

Pics:

PAGE 19
Image

Page 46
Image

Back Cover
Image


“Remember that generosity can be contagious…”  - Dave Sutherland III

eBay ID: themilford
Hidden Ebay ID: t***o

 WWW  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector
Subweb Admin
JG Valuation Board

Posts: 4597
Joined: Nov 08, 2002
Last Visit: Aug 06, 2026
Location: Land of 10,000 ponds

Post Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:56 pm 
 

Well the products page to the right is very similar to the 4th print Monster Manual product page except for the bottom 3 lines, Accessories list and the 2 lines for the B1 module above the AD&D modules list.

Side note: I don't have a B2 1st print product list-it may help.

From my notes I have the left hand side catalog book in the box set along with dice chit sheet and 2nd print B2.  Not sure if it has an ISBN as all my stuff is not easily accessible.

ShaneG.


I reject your reality and substitute my own

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 721
Joined: Aug 28, 2007
Last Visit: Dec 31, 2021
Location: Brooklyn

Post Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:01 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:Well the products page to the right is very similar to the 4th print Monster Manual product page except for the bottom 3 lines, Accessories list and the 2 lines for the B1 module above the AD&D modules list.

Side note: I don't have a B2 1st print product list-it may help.

From my notes I have the left hand side catalog book in the box set along with dice chit sheet and 2nd print B2.  Not sure if it has an ISBN as all my stuff is not easily accessible.

ShaneG.


The book on the left is from a "chitted" boxed set.

I also have an identical 3rd ed. that had the chits stapled into the book... I removed them from the book YEARS ago though.


“Remember that generosity can be contagious…”  - Dave Sutherland III

eBay ID: themilford
Hidden Ebay ID: t***o

 WWW  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector
Subweb Admin
JG Valuation Board

Posts: 4597
Joined: Nov 08, 2002
Last Visit: Aug 06, 2026
Location: Land of 10,000 ponds

Post Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:12 pm 
 

So the one from the right had dice? or this just an extra copy.

ShaneG.


I reject your reality and substitute my own

 WWW  


Verbose Collector

Posts: 1709
Joined: Sep 03, 2003
Last Visit: Feb 24, 2026
Location: Portown

Post Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:29 am 
 

Okay, I just broke out my Holmes printings...I have a 1st edition (1st printing), a 2nd edition, and a 3rd edition. The 1st and 3rd were the ones I used in compiling the cumulative list of changes linked above.

This 3rd edition matches the left-hand pictures above. I am going to tentatively assign this as the latest printing of the 3rd, for these reasons:

(1) In the right-hand pictures above, page 19 matches both the 1st edition (1st printing), and the 2nd edition. Thus, the re-formatting of page 19 appears to be a change that was not implemented until partway through the 3rd edition.

(2) In the right-hand pictures above, the product listing ("Other Items From TSR") is identical to the 2nd edition, except that the prices are missing.

Here's my tentative print assignments:

2nd edition: no ISBN number on page 1 lower left; page 19 formatted with combat matrix in middle of page; "USING THE DICE" on page 46 references only dice (but no 10-sided die); product list on back cover includes prices (reference: does not include B2 under "ADVENTURE MODULES FOR BASIC D&D").

3rd edition, 1st printing: no ISBN number on page 1 lower left; no other information currently available (I'm tentatively putting this first because the 1st and 2nd editions do not have an ISBN number on page 1).

[existence of this printing requires further confirmation]

3rd edition, 2nd printing: ISBN number on page 1 lower left; page 19 formatted as 2nd edition (combat matrix in middle of page); "USING THE DICE" on page 46 references dice (but no 10-sided die) and chits; product list on back cover identical to 2nd edition except that the prices are missing (reference: does not include B2 under "ADVENTURE MODULES FOR BASIC D&D").

[this is printing is in the right-hand pictures above]

3rd edition, 3rd printing: ISBN number lower left page 1; page 19 reformatted with combat matrix at top of page; "USING THE DICE" on page 46 references only Dice (including 10-sided die); product list on back cover has been changed from 2nd edition (reference: includes B2 under "ADVENTURE MODULES FOR BASIC D&D")

[this printing is in the left-hand pictures above]

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 721
Joined: Aug 28, 2007
Last Visit: Dec 31, 2021
Location: Brooklyn

Post Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:34 am 
 

Zenopus76 wrote:
(2) In the right-hand pictures above, the product listing ("Other Items From TSR") is identical to the 2nd edition, except that the prices are missing.


Also, more specifically and historically relevant is that the AD&D items have been removed from the final version of the product list to further separate the D&D/AD&D families... as by 1979 they were in full swing with. (I'm assuming the 3rd print came a bit later than the "December 1979" title page date.)


“Remember that generosity can be contagious…”  - Dave Sutherland III

eBay ID: themilford
Hidden Ebay ID: t***o

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 721
Joined: Aug 28, 2007
Last Visit: Dec 31, 2021
Location: Brooklyn

Post Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:38 am 
 

...Why do I have 7 copies of Holmes?

:wink:


“Remember that generosity can be contagious…”  - Dave Sutherland III

eBay ID: themilford
Hidden Ebay ID: t***o

 WWW  
Next
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 21, 2