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AC 3 / AC 5 Which is Really AC 8
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Post Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:12 am 
 

This is a question spawned from the silliest price thread that got me thinking.

Anyone have the AC 3 Revenge of Rusak that has the AC 5 sticker on it? My real question is where is the sticker located - on the shrink or on the actual module. I have the nonsticker version.


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:21 am 
 

bbarsh wrote:This is a question spawned from the silliest price thread that got me thinking.

Anyone have the AC 3 Revenge of Rusak that has the AC 5 sticker on it? My real question is where is the sticker located - on the shrink or on the actual module. I have the nonsticker version.


All the ones I've come across it's on the actual shrink....but I wouldn't discount it being on the module, I think I've seen a copy on ebay before with the sticker on the actual module.

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:49 am 
 

Badmike wrote:
All the ones I've come across it's on the actual shrink....but I wouldn't discount it being on the module, I think I've seen a copy on ebay before with the sticker on the actual module.

Mike B.


Thanks Mike. I think I am going to have to put this on my research list. Could be they did both, but that seems rather odd to me. I would think they were installed on shrink as an after thought.


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:26 pm 
 

bbarsh wrote:
Thanks Mike. I think I am going to have to put this on my research list. Could be they did both, but that seems rather odd to me. I would think they were installed on shrink as an after thought.


It could be either. I dealt with this a lot in the record industry. Sometime we would add a new UPC sticker to a product after-the-fact. We would send out rolls of the stickers to our distributor to sticker shrinwrapped stock but we could still have the manufacturer apply the sticker directly to the package until new print was made.

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:10 pm 
 

bbarsh wrote:Thanks Mike. I think I am going to have to put this on my research list. Could be they did both, but that seems rather odd to me. I would think they were installed on shrink as an after thought.


The sticker being on the shrink makes more sense to me.  Chances are the items were shrinked after they were printed then shipped to TSR where the error was caught.  Instead of ripping off the shrink from each one, placing a sticker then reshrinking, it was just put on top of the shrink.

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:16 pm 
 

Mars wrote:
The sticker being on the shrink makes more sense to me.  Chances are the items were shrinked after they were printed then shipped to TSR where the error was caught.  Instead of ripping off the shrink from each one, placing a sticker then reshrinking, it was just put on top of the shrink.


But if there were still units at the printers they may have had them apply directly to the package, before shrink.

Chances are TSR didn't get as big of a shipment of these as you think. They probalby got enough for mailorder and internal... the majority probably went directly to the distributor (Random House I think) from the printer. So I aggre the majority could have been over shrink... bu it's highly possible they applied them directly on the covers at the end of the print run after they caught the problem but before they ran out of jackets.

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:38 pm 
 

It's also possible that someone peeled the sticker carefully off the shrinkwrap and applied it to the cover.  This is something I do all the time with CDs (peel the blurbs off the shrinkwrap and apply them to the booklet cover).  It's very difficult to tell that the label was peeled off, if done properly.



  

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:23 pm 
 

It is possible but I would think it very unlikely.  I'm not sure who would catch it.  Once the job is shipped to the printer, I doubt the guy who put it together looked at it again.  The printer would then be long done with the order by the time anyone else who knew better would see the printed product.  The printer would probably be done with the whole print run before TSR even got any copies.  

If the error was caught mid print, I'd be a bit doubtful that a 2 stage solution would be used to correct the problem.  I agree with Traveller though, if I bought a copy with the sticker on the shrink, I would peel it off and put it on the module - sticker peel off very easily from that kind of shrink too.

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:14 pm 
 

Wow. I think this may be the first time I actually get to answer a question somebody has on the boards. :)

I have a Revenge of Rusak. The sticker is on the cover of the module. I know it was not placed there by somebody else because I got this module in the original shrink from that collection I bought last year, and I cracked the shrink personally.

My biggest complaint about this durn module is when I list my collection, what number do I list it under? AC8? lol. I was never 100% sure of the answer to that one. But, at least you guys have your answer. Glad I can help at least once. :)

Zen

  

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:42 pm 
 

Was it original shrink or reshrinked?

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:32 pm 
 

Zenfinite wrote:Wow. I think this may be the first time I actually get to answer a question somebody has on the boards. :)

I have a Revenge of Rusak. The sticker is on the cover of the module. I know it was not placed there by somebody else because I got this module in the original shrink from that collection I bought last year, and I cracked the shrink personally.

My biggest complaint about this durn module is when I list my collection, what number do I list it under? AC8? lol. I was never 100% sure of the answer to that one. But, at least you guys have your answer. Glad I can help at least once. :)

Zen


Great!!!!

The other thing that bothers me about the sticker is the shape. It is round and relatively large. That would indicate the sticker could actually "bleed" over an edge and wrap around the side or top of the module. No way they are gonna do this with a module out of the shrink. But a module in the shrink is no big deal.

So I think the stickers were printed with the idea that the modules were shrinked in the first place.

Additionally, there is a timing issue. When a module is printed, it is going straight from the assembler (automated) to the shrinker. I just can't see anyone pulling modules one by one (especially this one which has several loose components, and slapping a sticker on the gatefold. It just makes no sense at all.

And I certianly do not believe they pulled the gatefolds and applied the stickers separately. The most efficient and cheapest way to affix those stickers would be to wait until they went through the shrink.

So I am very inclined to believe that the few that have stickers on the actual module, are basically Frankenstiened - a very reasonable expectation.

Regardless, I have put it on my ongoing research list and I will keep an eye out.

Still need to add a second Ravenloft I6 printing and possibly another B3 printing...


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:32 pm 
 

bbarsh wrote:Still need to add a second Ravenloft I6 printing and possibly another B3 printing...


I have a couple "new" printings on my list as well.

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Post Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:17 am 
 

I'd just love to learn the story behind how the heck it was originally printed as AC3... and then someone realized it had to be fixed and they made up the AC5 stickers... somehow forgetting that the product really should be AC8!   8O   There must be one awesome story behind this one!  lol  I wonder if someone lost their job because of this.

Anyway, the copy I have is without the sticker, so it shows as AC3.  If my memory serves me, I think I remember seeing issues with the AC5 sticker on the shrink, but it has been a long time, so I don't want to commit to that memory 100%.  lol  ;)

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Post Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:07 am 
 

Katchoo wrote:I'd just love to learn the story behind how the heck it was originally printed as AC3... and then someone realized it had to be fixed and they made up the AC5 stickers... somehow forgetting that the product really should be AC8!   8O   There must be one awesome story behind this one!  lol  I wonder if someone lost their job because of this.

Anyway, the copy I have is without the sticker, so it shows as AC3.  If my memory serves me, I think I remember seeing issues with the AC5 sticker on the shrink, but it has been a long time, so I don't want to commit to that memory 100%.  lol  ;)

~Kat  ^_^



Oh, I think I know exactly what happened. I have some experience in the desktop publishing in my other life. I did signicant work with pagemaker and illustrator. Anyway, I bet that due to the similarity in modules, the page designer/graphic illustrator simply pulled the AC 3 document/file, made a copy and went about their business. The gatefolds are very similar down to the location of the yellow starburst. This is all done on a computer - and I would bet a Mac (they were the choice back then for any and all graphic production).
It is much quicker to grab and existing document make and copy and then go about making revisions. All the color separations would be in place -- I don't want to get too technical, but it is a huge time-saver.
It could be, most probably, that AC 8 did not have that designation yet and instead of just typing in "AC X" or "XX X" the graphic designer just left it alone, and made a mental note to go back and change it when the designation was assigned.
Well, things happen and all of the sudden you get AC 3 instead of AC 8. They could have switched designers in mid-stream, someone got sick, whatever. This is the most common mistake when files are duplicated and rewritten.
The fact that the product was supposed to be AC 8 and the stickers say AC 5 back up my theory. The ID was up in the air and a final decision was mucked up and confusion followed.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

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Post Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:38 am 
 

bbarsh wrote:Oh, I think I know exactly what happened. I have some experience in the desktop publishing in my other life. I did signicant work with pagemaker and illustrator. Anyway, I bet that due to the similarity in modules, the page designer/graphic illustrator simply pulled the AC 3 document/file, made a copy and went about their business. The gatefolds are very similar down to the location of the yellow starburst. This is all done on a computer - and I would bet a Mac (they were the choice back then for any and all graphic production).
It is much quicker to grab and existing document make and copy and then go about making revisions. All the color separations would be in place -- I don't want to get too technical, but it is a huge time-saver.
It could be, most probably, that AC 8 did not have that designation yet and instead of just typing in "AC X" or "XX X" the graphic designer just left it alone, and made a mental note to go back and change it when the designation was assigned.
Well, things happen and all of the sudden you get AC 3 instead of AC 8. They could have switched designers in mid-stream, someone got sick, whatever. This is the most common mistake when files are duplicated and rewritten.
The fact that the product was supposed to be AC 8 and the stickers say AC 5 back up my theory. The ID was up in the air and a final decision was mucked up and confusion followed.

While I think this sounds reasonable (I have been working in the desktop publishing arena myself), this was made in 1985. I have a difficult time believing a Macintosh was involved. They were still newborns. If done on a computer at all, I'd imagine something along the lines of IBM with Ventura Publisher. Frank or Tim Kask would likely know what TSR had at the time.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:38 am 
 

SimperingToad wrote:While I think this sounds reasonable (I have been working in the desktop publishing arena myself), this was made in 1985. I have a difficult time believing a Macintosh was involved. They were still newborns. If done on a computer at all, I'd imagine something along the lines of IBM with Ventura Publisher. Frank or Tim Kask would likely know what TSR had at the time.


For some reason I was thinking these were more late 80s...my memory sucks. You are correct, though. Not likely on a Mac in 1985 or 86.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

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Post Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:51 pm 
 

bbarsh wrote:
Great!!!!

The other thing that bothers me about the sticker is the shape. It is round and relatively large. That would indicate the sticker could actually "bleed" over an edge and wrap around the side or top of the module. No way they are gonna do this with a module out of the shrink. But a module in the shrink is no big deal.


You know, I re-looked at my module, and yes, in fact, the tiniest bit of the left edge does "bleed" across the spine of the fold cover. The sticker edge has raised up off the fold by about a mm at most. Kinda funny you mentioning that and it being the case. No idea, however, how or why they were stickered this way, that one may be lost to the mists of time.

And yes, Mars, original shrink. I popped a few of his shrinked modules, they were all consistent with each other and with other old modules. Yep, sorry gents, I am a de-shrinker. Sorry, but these were meant to be read and used! Also, it's just darn hard to get a module in VF-NM shape without it being shrinked, and even then, you can be disappointed.

Zen

  
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