I just found this on Facebook, and thought I would share---a person shamelessly "renovating" a Cthulhu-print of Deities & Demigods, and asking a steep price for it. Buyer beware!

https://www.facebook.com/mike.woo1/post ... nref=story

I was alerted to this through a comment on the FB group post:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/4023021 ... 594647670/

The spine glue degrades over time and with use. If you find a 1e hardcover book that is in rough shape but has a tight spine, then it's a 100% certainty that it has been re-glued.

Badmike wrote in Beware of people "renovating" items!:

PaulyDragon wrote in Beware of people "renovating" items!:I just found this on Facebook, and thought I would share---a person shamelessly "renovating" a Cthulhu-print of Deities & Demigods, and asking a steep price for it. Buyer beware!

https://www.facebook.com/mike.woo1/post ... nref=story

I was alerted to this through a comment on the FB group post:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/4023021 ... 594647670/

I know Mike, he doesn't hide the fact he "renovates" some of his books, and lets you know up front when he's repaired a spine or cover. His zeitgeist is more into the "I'm making this usable" than "I'm making this collectible so I can sell it and make a fortune". He also cuts up old comics and D&D books to make some amazing looking dice boxes.  I think as long as this is not hidden and he lets you know what he's done, it's ok.

Mike B.

But riddle me this Badmike: After Mike has sold it to someone, what is now stopping that someone from putting it back in to circulation without mentioning it is refurbished? It seems to me there is a slippery slope there.

We could work out a system to acknowledge items that have been altered with a few simple steps:

1. The item could be marked across the top front as a "Cursed Item," followed by an appropriate note such as "-2 Strength," "-4 Constitution," or some such concise description.

2. The issue has been raised over whether a seller has fully disclosed the history of the item. You wouldn't want to bring something home to your loved ones if it bears a terrible curse, would you? But then again, it wouldn't be practical to keep a detailed history of every item either. Society has at times in the past instituted simple signs & gestures to ward off & deny responsibility for the small curses that pass our way in daily life, such as the sign of the evil eye, or crossing ones self.

3. Sellers at conventions might wear robes marked with various signs & sigils that designate all the condition issues that their items have or don't have. For instance, we could agree upon a runic glyph to indicate that the seller has no items with staple rust, & so on. Someone who specializes in repaired items might wear a certain kind of pointy hat or amulet.

4. When a repaired, altered, or otherwise cursed item is sold at a convention, the seller could make ritual gestures to absolve further responsibility for the glue holding, or that that book once was owned by a mass murderer or whatever. As the buyers walk through the dealers' hall with their purchases, they might see the eyes of other sellers quickly widen, followed by furtive hand gestures, waving of incense, etc. This would indicate that the item has passed through the hands of these sellers, or that the sellers wish to absolve themselves of the curse for some unspeakable reason.

Comic books have a restoration scale.  However, for the scale to work, sellers would be required to label an item for sale.  

CGC Restoration Scale

1 (Slight) - All conservation work, re-glossing, interior lightening, piece fill no more than the size of two bindery chips, light color touch in small areas like spine stress, corner crease or bindery chip fill. Married cover or interior pages/wraps (if other work is present).  Clean staples.

2 (Slight/Moderate) - Piece fill up to ½" x ½" and/or color touch covering up to 1" x 1". Interior piece fill up to 1" x 1"

3 (Moderate) - Piece fill up to the size of 1" x 1" and/or color touch covering up to 2" x 2". Interior piece fill up to 2" x 2". Replace staples.

4 (Moderate/Extensive) - Piece fill up to the size of 2" x 2" and/or color touch covering up to 4" x 4". Interior piece fill up to 4" x 4"

5 (Extensive) - Any piece fill over 2" x 2" and/or color touch over 4" x 4". Recreated interior pages or cover.

I think I would prefer for any restoration to be simply outlined/stated instead of seeing some scale number.  We all know how people grade comic books on eBay.  I find sellers consistently grade comic books better than they really are.

I actually have no problem with people restoring items, but we all agree that it is a problem with people restoring items and selling them as un-restored items.  I don't think the answer to people selling restored items as un-restored is to not restore items.  A big part of the answer is to educate buyers about restoration.  I can tell you as an eBay seller, I hate refunding sold items.  Worse, a seller does not want to be caught being underhanded.  News like that gets around.  

benjoshua wrote in Beware of people "renovating" items!:Comic books have a restoration scale.  However, for the scale to work, sellers would be required to label an item for sale.  

CGC Restoration Scale

1 (Slight) - All conservation work, re-glossing, interior lightening, piece fill no more than the size of two bindery chips, light color touch in small areas like spine stress, corner crease or bindery chip fill. Married cover or interior pages/wraps (if other work is present).  Clean staples.

2 (Slight/Moderate) - Piece fill up to ½" x ½" and/or color touch covering up to 1" x 1". Interior piece fill up to 1" x 1"

3 (Moderate) - Piece fill up to the size of 1" x 1" and/or color touch covering up to 2" x 2". Interior piece fill up to 2" x 2". Replace staples.

4 (Moderate/Extensive) - Piece fill up to the size of 2" x 2" and/or color touch covering up to 4" x 4". Interior piece fill up to 4" x 4"

5 (Extensive) - Any piece fill over 2" x 2" and/or color touch over 4" x 4". Recreated interior pages or cover.

I think I would prefer for any restoration to be simply outlined/stated instead of seeing some scale number.  We all know how people grade comic books on eBay.  I find sellers consistently grade comic books better than they really are.

I actually have no problem with people restoring items, but we all agree that it is a problem with people restoring items and selling them as un-restored items.  I don't think the answer to people selling restored items as un-restored is to not restore items.  A big part of the answer is to educate buyers about restoration.  I can tell you as an eBay seller, I hate refunding sold items.  Worse, a seller does not want to be caught being underhanded.  News like that gets around.  8)

I would never try to restore a hardback book. That being said however, I have done restoration work on some of the box set boxes in my possession using videos found on the web. I've found that it greatly increases the life expectancy and looks MUCH better once completed than it did previously. If I sell any of the restored items, I am VERY careful to make sure that the buyer knows that the box has been restored and what care went into the restoration. I've found that a majority of the buyers are grateful for the knowledge and curious about the technique so they can apply it to their own sets. Caveat Emptor!

benjoshua wrote in Beware of people "renovating" items!:

MadCatUSA wrote in Beware of people "renovating" items!:That being said however, I have done restoration work on some of the box set boxes in my possession using videos found on the web.

Now that I think about it, I have a World of Greyhawk boxed set that, when I bought it had a slightly sunken box top.  I simply took some large bubble wrap sheets, cut them to the dimensions of the box and stacked them in there to straighten out the box top.  Many years later, the box top now looks like new, even without the stuffing inside.  I guess this is a simple form of restoration, but I didn't consider it that at the time.

Not only that, I bought a number of Dragon Magazines with cigarette smoke damage many years ago.  I found that by placing these magazines in a room where they would receive no sunlight, and turning each page every other day, the smoke smell could be virtually eliminated.  It could be argued that this is a form of restoration as well.

I have no intentions of selling any of those items at the present, but I probably wouldn't have thought twice about not mentioning these changes until now.  My guess is that most buyers would care less about those forms of "restoration" but some might.  

Exactly. What "restoration" actually means depends on the interaction between the seller and the buyer. Ultimately, it's in the transaction between the two that matters. Some people want that '57 Chevy with all the original paint, upholstery, engine etc. and some want the souped up hot rod that they couldn't afford when they were kids. It's all in what the buyer wants as long as the seller is open and honest about what's been done between the time that the item entered their possession and when they sold it.

I realize that people can sell things for whatever they want. Someone can try to sell a crushed Phantasy Conclave box that is still in shrinkwrap for $600 if they want. In much the same way Mike can try and sell a renovated Dieties & Demigods for $110 if he wants. Now I consider both of these to be 3x to 4x what they are worth. In my opinion that renovated Dieties book is now a reading copy, worth $10-$20. So I would suggest that by Mike charging $110 for it he is pricing it as if it is an original in excellent condition. As always, merely my opinion.