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N1 Cult of the Reptile God origins
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:15 am 
 

Interesting post by Kevin Hendryx on the NTRPG con pages that came up as a result of a conversation about Douglas Niles; anyone heard this tale before?  I'll have to discusss this further with him this summer:

"I submitted a product proposal for "Cult of the Reptile God" to TSR in 1981, before I left the company, and was much surprised to see it appear a little later as a full-fledged module with my original title and concept. TSR was apparently banking ideas and outlines from staff at that time and later farming them out to new hires as assigned projects."


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Post Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:22 am 
 

Heh. You'll be in a prime position to ask him, Mike! :)
I dig this module so I'd love to hear the story behind that comment.
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:44 pm 
 

yeah I remember that being posted in an auction of his stuff back in 2007. I think he submitted ideas for "Forest Oracle" and "Cult of the Reptile God" among other ideas. I'm pretty sure the final "Reptile God" module was originally the re-edit/re-write of L1 "Secret of Bone Hill". Then this re-edit/re-write was canned. Some years down the road Niles was given this re-edit to re-work and then it officially became N1.
Sort of confusing...

I think he submitted the idea of "Cult of the Reptile God", and then later worked on that re-edit for L1 but both of those jobs were unrelated. After he left TSR (I think that's what he's saying in your quote above) the development department went back into their archives, found the L1 re-edit/re-write and gave it to Niles to re-work for N1 ...

That's a lot of re's in that module

  

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:12 pm 
 

That's one I picked up along with the wall and door decorations, etc., for period atmosphere, letters, badges, and not as many other bits-and-pieces as I would've liked due to a badly worded bidding diversion.
Copy required for that context?


"7.3 ORGANIZING THE PARTY: Always have a keg, even if it's BYOB...
7.4 TAKING THE GAME SERIOUSLY: Don't"

  

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:33 pm 
 

product proposal for "Cult of the Reptile God" to TSR in 1981, before I left the company


Well, you may not like it, but the terms of our employment included "shop rights": whatever we wrote, they owned.

That included ideas/proposals that we put in writing.
The quote verifies the employment status at the time.

I have to deal with that in my "R" modules and campaign details therein
(being changed for the campaign's eventual publication, to avoid copyright issues).

Sorry to hear KH still wants to complain about it.

F


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Post Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:21 pm 
 

ExTSR wrote in N1 Cult of the Reptile God origins:
product proposal for "Cult of the Reptile God" to TSR in 1981, before I left the company


Well, you may not like it, but the terms of our employment included "shop rights": whatever we wrote, they owned.

That included ideas/proposals that we put in writing.
The quote verifies the employment status at the time.

I have to deal with that in my "R" modules and campaign details therein
(being changed for the campaign's eventual publication, to avoid copyright issues).

Sorry to hear KH still wants to complain about it.

F


Actually the language was defective (at least in 1980 -- I don't know about later).  I pointed that out to Gary and he told me he knew it, but his goal was just to keep people from misbehaving, not actually take all their ideas.  I was good with that, but it was a different conversation.

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:24 pm 
 

Absolutely no idea of what the Blooms or their successor wanted to accomplish, I suspect different things.

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Post Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:10 pm 
 

btw, I flipped back through N1 and there wasn't any credit to Kevin -- anywhere in the module. No one would ever have known the guy had any involvement in the adventure. Not even in as much a listing such as "inspiration:" or in the "development" credits, as in previous modules (such as the Orange B3 to Green B3 credits) or even a "Concept by" or "Thanks" :?

Tim, Harry, and Jim were left out too..
also whoever did the cartography

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Post Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:55 am 
 

wasn't any credit to Kevin -- anywhere in the module. No one would ever have known the guy had any involvement in the adventure. Not even in as much a listing such as "inspiration:" or in the "development" credits, as in previous modules (such as the Orange B3 to Green B3 credits) or even a "Concept by" or "Thanks" :?
Tim, Harry, and Jim were left out too.. also whoever did the cartography


Don't remember exactly -- 1981 or 82 -- this started becoming a trend. Retroactively we realize that it was a symptom of the Blume influence. It had become obvious that Gary's public appeal was a major factor in the power struggle, and that the Blumes didn't want any more 'superstars' gaining such leverage (Hickman was rising fast, despite that). So for whatever reasons -- maybe that paranoia, maybe something else -- fewer credits were listed. This overcorrection was remedied later, it seems, but the credits of products 1982+ are nowhere near as complete as '70s thru 1980-81.

imho

F


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:52 pm 
 

ExTSR wrote in N1 Cult of the Reptile God origins:
wasn't any credit to Kevin -- anywhere in the module. No one would ever have known the guy had any involvement in the adventure. Not even in as much a listing such as "inspiration:" or in the "development" credits, as in previous modules (such as the Orange B3 to Green B3 credits) or even a "Concept by" or "Thanks" :?
Tim, Harry, and Jim were left out too.. also whoever did the cartography


Don't remember exactly -- 1981 or 82 -- this started becoming a trend. Retroactively we realize that it was a symptom of the Blume influence. It had become obvious that Gary's public appeal was a major factor in the power struggle, and that the Blumes didn't want any more 'superstars' gaining such leverage (Hickman was rising fast, despite that). So for whatever reasons -- maybe that paranoia, maybe something else -- fewer credits were listed. This overcorrection was remedied later, it seems, but the credits of products 1982+ are nowhere near as complete as '70s thru 1980-81.

imho

F


Wow, always wondered why this happened, now it makes sense.  

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:26 pm 
 

ExTSR wrote in N1 Cult of the Reptile God origins:Don't remember exactly -- 1981 or 82 -- this started becoming a trend. Retroactively we realize that it was a symptom of the Blume influence.

"Devo units", etc., getting fewer credits in general shouldn't be a surprise given the content of the wall and door decorations and not-so-subtle jabs in the direction of the Blumes.


"7.3 ORGANIZING THE PARTY: Always have a keg, even if it's BYOB...
7.4 TAKING THE GAME SERIOUSLY: Don't"

  

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Post Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:53 pm 
 

and otoh and contrariwise that's just from my limited perspective.
By the end of my first year there, I was physically segregated... moved from 3rd floor to 2nd to start RPGA.
No longer part of the production design/editing/art/ team, alas. That certainly skewed my viewpoint.

Kevin should certainly get concept credits in the Real records, whatever is 'official'. ;>

  
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