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A new online OOP RPG store
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:52 pm 
 

I have a new online-only out-of-print RPG store based in the UK. Before I go on about how great we are and the sort of things we have in stock, I'd actually like to start out by humbly asking you guys what you think 'best practices' would be for such a store and what sort of behaviour should I absolutely avoid?

Having been a long-time lurker on these forums, I can sympathise with anyone complaining about Hampshire's most notorious eBay seller. (I got burned myself some years back, when one box of a very large order just never arrived. PayPal sorted that one out.) I've seen that people here are very positive about Noble Knight, and if we could be a British version of Noble Knight one day, I'd be very happy and very proud.

Things that we already do that I'd like to think are best practices:
1. Images on our website are actual photos of the actual product you're buying, not stock photos or jpgs of the front cover copied from someone else's website.
2. Card payments are all handled properly through a PayPal payment gateway.
3. We try to be as honest as possible about condition - although there is inevitably some subjectivity.
4. We offer free shipping on UK orders over £20 and flat rate shipping on all other orders. The flat rate is £2.50 for UK orders below £20, £12 for all European orders and £25 for the rest of the world. Flat rate means you pay that charge per order regardless of the number of items you order or the volume or weight of the shipment. I like to be upfront about how much your order is going to cost to ship before you get to checkout. (And I'd love you to buy lots of things in one go.)
5. I'd like to think that our website is very easy to browse through.

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Post Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:52 pm 
 

I am not sure you necessarily want to be a British version of Noble Knight as reviews for Noble Knight have been mixed.  Here are a couple of threads illustrating discussions about buyer's experiences:

NobleKnightGames is getting PATHETIC

Bad Transaction with Noble Knight or I owe Gnat an Apology

The qualities you mention are all worthy.  One thing I noticed you may want to address is packing.  This community talks about this often either because someone shipped something especially well or someone else packed something especially poorly.  The USPS does not have the best reputation for handling shipments carefully or handling insurance claims well.  Packing properly insures condition is not compromised.

We wish you the best in your new business!   8)


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:08 pm 
 

Best of Luck !!

One thing that I am keen on is great packing. Perhaps you might provide some description on how items are packed etc.. Others may have different views, but for me, if I am spending £20-30 (or more) on an item then free postage is less important than great packing. That is when I am buying to collect. When I am buying play copies however then the reverse is the case. Also, I say stick around and be part of the community here ... we are all lovely  :D


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:10 pm 
 

I have not been around as long as some of these folks and there plenty of sellers here who can help but I do buy a lot and from a buyer's perspective the 5 items you have listed are a great starting point. Stock photos really are no good, especially for more expensive items. Condition of an item is definitely subjective as some people are never going to be happy. Honesty and good pictures will go along way there. Shipping across the pond is always ridiculous so fair prices on what you are actually buying will help attract customers in the US. Personally, I think Noble Knight's items are waaay overpriced, even the rare ones. This is always substantiated with a little patience finding the item on ebay or elsewhere for much less. I know at this point mostly everything is considered OOP but at millions printed, on most items you have to be reasonable or you won't sell. Don't get me wrong people seem to pay anything for items these days, and we point them out on the forum all the time but it wont be everday that those sell. As you can see from many posts on this forum, more people used to buy from NK but no longer due to the ever increasing prices, stock photos, and many other issues.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:14 pm 
 

Thanks enormously for the advice and the good wishes. I'd missed those NK threads. It might be an inevitable (if sad) consequence of growth. We're certainly not that big. (We have about 1,000 products in stock.)

The point about packaging is a good one. So far what I've used for single softback books is those stiff envelopes; for single hardback books padded envelopes and for multi-item orders, a stiff cardboard box carefully padded to prevent the items moving about in shipment. A very good packing material I've found to fill the gap between product and box is toilet paper roll tubes cut to size - light but strong. (This is not as weird as the eBay purchase I once made that arrived packed in used mens underwear...) I also make sure that all seams in the packing are covered by parcel tape. If an item is particularly vulnerable, I'll use bubble wrap too. It's clearly important to collectors (and justifiably so), so I may well add a page to the website showing typical packaging.

I always ensure that the goods are fully insured in transit - I should mention this more explicitly on the website.

I plan to "stick around and be part of the community". Like I said, I've been a lurker for a while and I've even linked here from my site (for example, referring people to the versions guide for Original D&D). When it comes to proper collecting (as opposed to trading), I have been a pretty dedicated Traveller collector. (This explains why the shop has 339 different Traveller products in stock.)

Pricing is difficult and there are a lot of factors to consider. I find that for lots of items, UK prices tend to be higher than US prices - simply because few copies of certain items ever made it over to this side of the pond. On the other hand, I do want to maintain a decent turnover of stock. We definitely had most of our D&D prices too high to begin with, and I've reduced just about all of those prices in the last couple of days. I'm also conscious that the exchange rate at the moment makes our prices more expensive for American buyers than at some points in the recent past. I'm not scared to reduce prices to shift stock, and we built the website to allow for flexible pricing and discounting.

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Post Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:19 pm 
 

It occurs to me that I haven't actually given you the URL. The shop is called The Shop on the Borderlands and can be found at Out of Print RPGs - The Shop on the Borderlands

You can also follow us on Twitter: @ShopBorderlands and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/shopontheborderlands?ref=hl .

Thanks again for your comments.

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:13 am 
 

Your shop looks fine.  Keep it simple is the way to go.  Only comment would be imo....just have photos of the actual items and don't clutter the images with dice or minis.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:13 am 
 

The one thing I would mention is to watch your prices.  Over the past few years, NK has gained a reputation for way over the top prices that are 2X or 3X or 4X the going rate on Ebay.  Most people don't mind paying a bit of a premium to avoid Ebay or buy it right away instead of waiting for an auction to end but when you are factors out, customers start to realize and go to other markets.  Once you have that reputation it is difficult to get rid of and often after you have lost the customer who was interested in that particular book they may not come back after you have lowered the price.

As you mentioned, the UK market is different from the North American market but a quick look at a few items:
* Chaosium Pendragon - as a general comment, I think these are priced high.
* Great Pendragon Campaign and 5e rules are currently the big ticket items and you have priced them accordingly high.  Years ago GPC would sell for $150 but the price has dropped a fair bit - the 2 recent sales on Ebay are $54 and $66.  Your ask is about $150 which is more in line with the BIN offerings.
* Other more common books from older editions like Blood & Lust, Perilous Forest generally sell in the $10-$15, your ask is about $60 each so I think you are very high here.

FASA Star Trek core box - these are a tough sell (we had a recent discussion about these not too long ago), your ask is about $120 which again seems really high.

From this I would generally say that your pricing is high so your shop is not really for me (unless you had something really rare).  The same is true for NK these days.  I used to order a lot of common stuff from them to fill in holes in my collection but the premium price to do so became too high.

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:34 am 
 

I'm no expert either, just a long time ebayer as buyer and seller. A collector who buys and then sells so I can buy more :D

I 2nd what MARS said, prices are everything. Especially if you are a frugal collector such as myself and many others i'm sure.

I'll pay premium for something rare or something I really really want. But even then I'm still looking for a bargain. Hell aren't we all??

$120 for a Star Trek RPG Boxed set is high! Ouch.

but that's just my .02 worth. Good luck with your new business, I'm going now to check out your site


Make them pay as much as they think they can afford...J.R. "Bob" Dobbs

  


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:42 pm 
 

More great advice! I'm halfway through a pricing review and will definitely be adjusting downwards where necessary. The £120 for Star Trek seems high to me too - it's possible that was a typo on my part!

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:11 pm 
 

Good luck with the store.

I don't post here as much as a lot of the others, but this thread reminded me of why I don't shop at NK anymore, unless I absolutely have no alternative.

Stock photos on stuff that I am putting out a hefty sum for simply don't cut it. I want to see actual pictures of the actual item you are actually selling.

Their grading standards are horrid - I am used to Gencon auctions, where every high dollar item is looked at, verified, scrutinized, and held to a high degree of specifics in order to properly grade it.

I won't even go into specifics as how baffled I was that "THIS was marked as FINE????"

Be honest with your customers, be fair with your prices, and you will go far. I have learned over the past few months just how much money we gamers can come up if we want something badly enough....and at the same time, how patient we will be (to a point) if there is active communication.

Off to go check out your store.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:33 pm 
 

Good luck on the store. I don't really have too much else to offer than what's previously been said, but I hope it goes well.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:43 pm 
 

One more thing to consider.  I have often shook my head at the ridiculous prices offered by Noble Knight, and some other sellers, especially on most of their super-rare items.  However, I now wonder whether their approach is not only not insane, but may, if fact, be purposeful and helpful overall to their bottom line.  Here's what might be going on.

I wonder if the price their highly rare items at ridiculous prices serve as bait or window dressing.  Many buyers hear about Orange B3's, woodgrain box sets, or other rarities and search for sellers on the internet with those items.  And since sellers like Noble Knight have these kinds of items in stock, potential buyers visit their web-site.  It can become a win-win situation.  If the buyer actually buys the item, the seller made a killer profit.  If the buyer doesn't buy the item, I suspect many buyers look for something else they can afford and when common items appear at more reasonable prices, then the contrast could lead them to buy one or more cheaper/common selections.  I realize that approach would probably not work well with this more discriminating crowd, but for many buyers, it could serve as an effective business model.  And it's not the kind of thing they'd ever confess.  They just laugh at all the criticism as the money rolls in.

What you have to figure out as a seller is whether you are going after the mass market crowd or the discriminating crowd.  Going after everyone sometimes leads to extermination.   That may not be true in this market, but in many markets you have to determine your niche and your territory.  For me, I get an item at a price less than I think it will sell for and then sell it at a profitable price within a short time frame.  My volume is so low, I have very few loyal buyers.  It's all about the quick buck.  That philosophy works great for me.  That approach is simple but simplistic.  For a large volume seller, I would think a more sophisticated marketing and pricing policy is in order.

It's something to think about.   You do what you want.  8)


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:47 am 
 

benjoshua wrote in A new online OOP RPG store:I wonder if the price their highly rare items at ridiculous prices serve as bait or window dressing.  Many buyers hear about Orange B3's, woodgrain box sets, or other rarities and search for sellers on the internet with those items.


Even if we grant that premise, I don't recall seeing anything of that level on the new site under discussion, so it's moot.


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:05 pm 
 

No, we don't really have anything that I'd call a rarity as far as D&D is concerned. (I have a Silver Anniversary boxed set that I haven't got around to putting up. That's about it.) We have more Travelle rarities than D&D, although we had rather more of those before the author of 'The Traveller Bibliography' discovered the site...

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