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My son's birthday present. Where do I start?
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Post Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:05 am 
 

Hello All,

While on holyday in France last month, my son, being an extremely avid reader, ran out of books to read. The only book in english we found in the small bookshop in the little village we were staying was a D&D rule compendium. I tried to explain to him what it was, and that I did not think he would find it interresting at all (shame on me!). But he was adament, I think he fell in love with the huge dragon on the cover, and I ended up "wasting" €5 on something I thought would be opened once and spend the rest of its life in a box in the attic.
To my surprise and delight, he did not throw it away and he has been reading it methodically now for more than a month, letting himself get lost in a world of his own.
Being a good dad, and seeing his birthday coming up, I would love to fuel his new found interrest and get him a proper D&D starter set. The problem? I know nothing of the D&D world. I have been reading about it wherever I could, trying to instruct myself but I am just getting more and more confused. So my question is this, and I hope this is the right forum for it:
What can I get my son to start him up playing D&D? He is only 10 but has no trouble digesting heavy rules systems in boardgames and I think he now has a pretty good knowledge of some of the D&D rules too. I intend to play with hime so I need something that will suit my debutant level and my pocket too :o)

Any help will be greatly appreciated and I will be very thankful to any idea that will make his newly found interrest florish. Here might be a potential for a future master player ;o) ---Just the proud dad talking ----
If I did not post in the right forum or on the right site, my apologies, but, as said previously, I am lost here....

Thank you in advance.

Gill

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:33 am 
 

You could start with Swords and Wizardry White Box, a very simple OD&D-ish clone. Once those concepts are internalized, you could switch to OSRIC, an AD&D clone. Both are available as free downloads (embedded links above) or as hard copies for purchase on Lulu (see below). To minimize cost, you could print copies for yourself and order him the good hard copy from Lulu. If his interest continues, you could later go to eBay and get the vintage AD&D PHB, MM and DMG books or even buy the official reprints from WotC (out July 17). Needless to say, there are many, many other options and routes that lead to every point on the spectrum between OD&D and 3e, but that's how I got back into it and it worked well.

A great thread on D&D and kids that might interest you as well:
http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/phpbb3/ ... f=2&t=1031

Swords and Wizarsdry: White Box on Lulu:
http://www.lulu.com/shop/matthew-finch/ ... 91261.html

OSRIC on Lulu:
http://www.lulu.com/shop/stuart-marshal ... 95255.html

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:00 am 
 

Which rules compendium, exactly, did you buy for him? There are multiple "editions" (different rule sets) for D&D and it would be a shame to give him the wrong starter set...or at least, a different set than he has been reading so far. Link us to a picture of the book, or, heck, just what's the exact title? That would help narrow it down significantly. :) Then we can match the edition to the correct starter set and you'll be ready to start your son on a hobby that has lasted, for many of us here, decades.

Zenfinite

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:10 am 
 

Ah, I missed those two key words.. Rules Compendium. I thought he'd just read a fantasy book and gotten interested in D&D. As Zenfinite said, post a picture so we can get an idea of what he has already read (sounds like maybe the book from Mentzer Red Box?). Staying consistent is probably helpful, though it might not be the cheapest option.

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:31 am 
 

Hello and Thank you for the replies.

The book I bought him is called "Dungeons and Dragons Rules Cyclopedia" and is from 1991. I was thinking of getting something a bit more up to date but I am open minded. I do not have a picture but might be able to add one tomorrow. Theres also a number on the top corner : 1071. I do not know if it is relevant or not.

I hope this helps. Well I know it is helping me...

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:32 am 
 

I think the reprints are a good way to go, but they'll be quite a bit pricier than starting with Swords & Wizardry or OSRIC (which is also available in nicer hardcover edition than the version from Lulu @ http://black-blade-publishing.com/Store.aspx =) ).

IIRC, all of the rules compendium books were tied to the Basic/Expert model, so if you want to get him a starter set (and that "how to play, what is role-playing, etc." stuff is not covered in what he picked up, for some reason), then I recommend you start him with the D&D Basic set from Tom Moldvay:

Image
and
Image

Then, it's easy to step up to AD&D (the reprints are:  PHB, DMG, MM), or to continue with the Cook/Marsh Expert set, depending on the level of complexity he wants.


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:35 am 
 

hglcky wrote:The book I bought him is called "Dungeons and Dragons Rules Cyclopedia" and is from 1991. I was thinking of getting something a bit more up to date but I am open minded. I do not have a picture but might be able to add one tomorrow. Theres also a number on the top corner : 1071. I do not know if it is relevant or not.


You can also likely turn that book around and sell it for $50 USD or so on eBay/Amazon, and then use that money to fund a better intro set.  I've never used the RC in play before, so I don't remember what it does or doesn't include about how to play, how to run a game, how to design adventures, etc.  It is, however, supposed to be an excellent all-rules-in-one-book version of the game, but again, I can't speak from experience on that front.

The RC info/details are on the same page as the Expert link above (but there's not much, since it's a much later book than the earlier sets I mentioned above).


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:47 am 
 

hglcky wrote:Hello and Thank you for the replies.

The book I bought him is called "Dungeons and Dragons Rules Cyclopedia" and is from 1991. I was thinking of getting something a bit more up to date but I am open minded. I do not have a picture but might be able to add one tomorrow. Theres also a number on the top corner : 1071. I do not know if it is relevant or not.

I hope this helps. Well I know it is helping me...


Wow, that's actually VERY lucky. That book is worth more than 5 pounds, more like 35!! :) So, great deal you got there! OK, so, you basically have all the rules to play Dungeons and Dragons (D&D). You don't have any special edition, no Advanced, nothing like that. Just good old fashioned D&D. That book probably has more rules information than any other single book out there, so, great job!!

Honestly, I think you buying some published adventures on eBay would get you more in the way of experience, at least, how the game is run, set up, etc. Module B1, Keep on the Borderlands should be right up your alley, I know it started many, many people on the road to understanding D&D. Here's a link: http://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/modpages/b1.html

At the bottom of that webpage is another link that leads you directly to eBay with the module all picked out for you. To boot, it is cheap! :)

Here is a link to the rest of the B series of modules, again with the eBay link at the bottom of the page. http://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/modpages/b.html I personally enjoyed B4 B5 and B6.

Then there is the X series of modules. Link: http://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/modpages/x.html X1, Isle of Dread, is another long time, heavily played module.

I advise you to stay with the originals. Reprints and clone gaming systems rob you and your son of the joy of experiencing Dungeons and Dragons, warts and all, in my opinion. With a copy of the Rules cyclopedia, a couple B series modules and a couple X series, you're set for at least a year of serious gaming goodness, for a quite reasonable amount of money. Good luck!

Zenfinite

P.S. All opinions expressed herein are just that, my opinions. :)

  

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:30 am 
 

I would add something you may not have and would be needed...Dice.  Not just the board game dice - rather a polyhedral dice set maybe in your son's favorite color.

ShaneG.


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:06 pm 
 

Guys,
You have been extremelly helpful so far. It is going to take me a while to review everything that was suggested here, but I have seen a few bits and bobs that were in the line of what I had in mind. Things are slowly getting clearer.
I am actually now looking forward to playing with him and I already got 2 sets of 7 dices (1 blue and 1 orange).

A big thank you to you all.

Great site you've got here. I will be back.

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:08 pm 
 

hglcky, if you already have the Rules Cyclopedia, that is good for now. It's a complete system and I agree with Zen that you may want to pick some modules and with Plagg that you may want to pick up some dice.

If you eventually move to Advanced D&D from Basic, OSRIC is a clear, concise and free companion to the indispensable original DMG, PHB and MM books. We have them all at our table. Also, grodog's Black Blade version of OSRIC is the best option for domestic purchasers (I thought you were still in France at first, hence the Lulu suggestion).

  

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:12 am 
 

I don't have the Rules Cyclopedia you have, but from my understanding, it's a good book for a novice to start playing with.
Since he's already read it so much and enjoyed it, I would just stick with that for your 'rules set'* for now.
Right now, I would try buying a few "modules" - booklets describing adventures for players to engage in.
I would recommend B1 - In Search of the Unknown, B3 - Palace of the Silver Princess, and B4 - The Lost City as the best starters.


* There are many variations of rules for how to play Dungeons & Dragons.  You can see a (almost) full list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editions_o ... 26_Dragons
Without getting too detailed, the first rule set published was "Dungeons & Dragons", often referred to as "OD&D".
Then, they split the game up into two sets of rules - Advanced Dungeons & Dragons and Basic Dungeons & Dragons.  Advanced had more rules and was more complex/sophisticated, Basic was a bit more simplified.  In 2000, they went back to only having 1 version of the rules.  
The differences between rule sets varies a lot.  For example, the difference between Dungeons & Dragons (3rd version) rules and Dungeons & Dragons (4th version) is tiny.  The difference between Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (1st Edition)  and Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (2nd Edition)  is not too large.  The difference between Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (2nd Edition)  and Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition is huge.

Generally, on this site, you'll find support for the various pre-2000 rulesets and disdain for the 2000 and beyond ones.
What you have is Dungeons & Dragons (5th version), Rules Cyclopedia (levels 1--36).
When he gets older and is more comfortable with the game, I would recommend trying to transition to the Advanced Rules, either 1st or 2nd Edition.   But stick with what you've got for now.

Poking around in here might also help you clarify what is available and how it fits together.  
http://www.tsrinfo.net/archive/index.htm
http://www.tsrinfo.net/archive/dd/dd.htm

  

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:32 am 
 

Also, you can get lucky and find these things in secondhand bookstores, but mostly these items that are 20+ years old are hard to find.

You'll want to make good use of eBay to find them, most likely.  
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Dungeons-Drag ... &_catref=1

For example, here's B4 The Lost City, available for a pittance:

** expired/removed eBay auction **



(Avoid buying from the guy who goes by "cougarrinard", btw.  Really.)

  

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:46 pm 
 

Chainsaw wrote:hglcky, if you already have the Rules Cyclopedia, that is good for now. It's a complete system and I agree with Zen that you may want to pick some modules and with Plagg that you may want to pick up some dice.

If you eventually move to Advanced D&D from Basic, OSRIC is a clear, concise and free companion to the indispensable original DMG, PHB and MM books. We have them all at our table. Also, grodog's Black Blade version of OSRIC is the best option for domestic purchasers (I thought you were still in France at first, hence the Lulu suggestion).


Ditto.  You are getting a lot of good advice here.  However, if your son is more of the kind of person who just likes to read rules and books, then going with the Dungeon Masters Guide, Players Handbook and Monster Manual makes more sense as the next purchases.  But if your son has a group of friends and wants to play the game, then going with the pre-written adventures (modules) makes more sense as your next purchases.  I personally like to read modules more than rule books, but there's not usually too much to them (~30 pages versus 200-300 pages).

Also, it sounds like you already know this, but make sure the items you purchase are 1st edition or 2nd edition rule books and modules.  There are now 3rd edition, a 3.5 edition, a 4th edition and soon-to-be 5th edition rule books and modules.  1st and 2nd edition rule books and modules dovetail much more easily with the Rules Compendium rules than later editions.

I hope you'll post an update as to what you purchase and how he takes to the reading/game.   8)


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Post Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:36 pm 
 

benjoshua wrote:However, if your son is more of the kind of person who just likes to read rules and books, then going with the Dungeon Masters Guide, Players Handbook and Monster Manual makes more sense as the next purchases.  But if your son has a group of friends and wants to play the game, then going with the pre-written adventures (modules) makes more sense as your next purchases.  I personally like to read modules more than rule books, but there's not usually too much to them (~30 pages versus 200-300 pages).

That is a good point.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:12 pm 
 

benjoshua wrote:Also, it sounds like you already know this, but make sure the items you purchase are 1st edition or 2nd edition rule books and modules.  There are now 3rd edition, a 3.5 edition, a 4th edition and soon-to-be 5th edition rule books and modules.  1st and 2nd edition rule books and modules dovetail much more easily with the Rules Compendium rules than later editions.


And Chris makes a good point there, too:  there's a 4th edition basic set that looks like one of the old classic basic sets, which you should avoid:

Image

versus

Image

Avoid the second one.


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