The Acaeum Dungeons & Dragons
Collecting Forums

Article on the upcoming 1e reprints
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1
Author


Prolific Collector

Posts: 158
Joined: Aug 27, 2007
Last Visit: Mar 30, 2026
Location: North West, South Africa

Post Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:42 am 
 

There is a fairly interesting article by Jon Schindehette (senior creative director for D&D at WotC) about the creation of the 1e reprints: here.

(Just for those of you who don't visit the Wizards of the Coast's web site every day :twisted:)

  


Prolific Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 450
Joined: Apr 13, 2008
Last Visit: Aug 02, 2026
Location: Ohio

Post Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:40 am 
 

Interesting article...but ...

"...
In case you didn't realize, the paper for the original books was a bit thin, and this meant that the content on the reverse side of the page was visible when the images were scanned. So there was a LOT of cleaning up!
..."

The pages in my copies of the 1st edition core books aren't thin at all (when I think about the 3E/4E books) but maybe we have different ideas on what thin is. Now I haven't tried to scan them in, but I still wouldn't think I'd get reverse side images in the scan. Maybe later printings had quite a bit thinner pages?

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
JG Valuation Board
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 5029
Joined: Oct 11, 2004
Last Visit: Jan 16, 2017
Location: Texas

Post Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:01 am 
 

Without ripping it apart and separating the pages from the spine, I scanned about 52 pages and all four inside cover and flyleaf pages from a copy of the PHB and it did not bleed through.
Remember the Perleman PHB that made the rounds around the world for a couple of years before dissapearing into someones private vault?
All I did was open the complete book and lay it down onto the screen and while lightly pushing the book nearly flat scanned as well as I could.

I suspect that WoTCo tore the books completely apart to scan individual pages on a high grade scanner.
I am going to go out on a limb and state that I do not believe that they had all that much cleaning to do.


"Guys, I am starting to think Tegel Manor might be haunted..."
Stated by me as a PC during a run of Tegel Manor DMed by killjoy at NTRPGCon 2010

Charter Member of the ATM

  

User avatar

Verbose Collector

Posts: 1382
Joined: Nov 03, 2008
Last Visit: Apr 07, 2026
Location: My Pad

Post Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:07 am 
 

Gnat the Beggar wrote:I suspect that WoTCo tore the books completely apart to scan individual pages on a high grade scanner.

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Many high-end scanners require an object be paper thin and flat against the scanning surface. They don't all work like our common desktop scanners.

The bleed-through depends on the scanner settings. Attempting to get a scan not to fill in and darken, they'd need to give the scans more light, maybe even backlight if the scanner had the ability. That would allow things to show through from the other side. Hell, even on my cheesy $100 desktop scanner, I can make it do that.

What surprised me was the mention of re-keying everything instead of using OCR methods.

And then there's the cover. They wanted to 'pay homage'. Read between the lines. "We didn't have the source artwork, so we had to come up with something pleasing to the eye and yet familiar to the suckers... er... potential buyers."


Art of dragons doing what dragons do. Site of a friend. Dragonstuff

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 158
Joined: Aug 27, 2007
Last Visit: Mar 30, 2026
Location: North West, South Africa

Post Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:36 am 
 

SimperingToad wrote:What surprised me was the mention of re-keying everything instead of using OCR methods.

Are those two mutually exclusive? Excuse me if that's a stupid question; I'm not very familiar with printing processes and only have a vague idea what "re-keying" means, but based on my limited understanding, I assumed that they could still have OCRed the text.

And then there's the cover. They wanted to 'pay homage'. Read between the lines. "We didn't have the source artwork, so we had to come up with something pleasing to the eye and yet familiar to the suckers... er... potential buyers."

Even if they had the original artwork, I'm sure they'd still have designed a new cover for the reprints. D&D has a very long history of changing the cover art when books are reprinted. The 1e core books each had two covers, the 2e black spine reprints got new covers, the 3.5 special editions had new covers (fake leather ones). The 4e deluxe prints had covers that were the close to the originals, but even those used only part of the original artwork.

  

User avatar

Sage Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 2763
Joined: Sep 25, 2007
Last Visit: Feb 22, 2026

Post Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:51 pm 
 

I was wondering the same thing, between an OCR scan and "re-keying" all the text.
I also wondered if they referenced this site to see/get confused with which printing of the PHB and MM they were going to re-key?   :D

And then there's the cover. They wanted to 'pay homage'. Read between the lines. "We didn't have the source artwork, so we had to come up with something pleasing to the eye and yet familiar to the suckers... er... potential buyers."

I just took that to be that they scanned the original artwork, used photoshop to section out what they wanted, then continued to do the graphic design touch up stuff in photoshop, instead of someone mimic'ing the art from scratch. I'll be interested to see it in person though. I really hope it remained Sutherland and Trampier's work.

btw, I do know that there were proposals to change the covers of the books in 1981 before the orange-spine Easley were done a couple years later.

  

User avatar

Verbose Collector

Posts: 1382
Joined: Nov 03, 2008
Last Visit: Apr 07, 2026
Location: My Pad

Post Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:24 pm 
 

Echohawk wrote:
SimperingToad wrote:What surprised me was the mention of re-keying everything instead of using OCR methods.

Are those two mutually exclusive? Excuse me if that's a stupid question; I'm not very familiar with printing processes and only have a vague idea what "re-keying" means, but based on my limited understanding, I assumed that they could still have OCRed the text.

Re-keying = re-typing. We do after all, use keyboards, not typeboards.  :P  You could do both in certain circumstances, but if you have the scanner doing a good job on the OCR front, why bother re-typing?

Echohawk wrote:
And then there's the cover. They wanted to 'pay homage'. Read between the lines. "We didn't have the source artwork, so we had to come up with something pleasing to the eye and yet familiar to the suckers... er... potential buyers."

Even if they had the original artwork, I'm sure they'd still have designed a new cover for the reprints. D&D has a very long history of changing the cover art when books are reprinted. The 1e core books each had two covers, the 2e black spine reprints got new covers, the 3.5 special editions had new covers (fake leather ones). The 4e deluxe prints had covers that were the close to the originals, but even those used only part of the original artwork.

Sure, but if you notice, much more of the 4E covers are present for the specials by comparison to these. The benefit of having originals to work with. Which leads into...

misterspock wrote:I just took that to be that they scanned the original artwork, used photoshop to section out what they wanted, then continued to do the graphic design touch up stuff in photoshop, instead of someone mimic'ing the art from scratch. I'll be interested to see it in person though. I really hope it remained Sutherland and Trampier's work.

They simply couldn't use the covers of the original books to do a reprint. It would have been blurry and taken a lot of photoshop work. The first issue would have been dealing with the dot pattern from the printer. Assuming they found one perfectly in registration (all 4 colors lined up exactly where they should be), they would have had to remove the dot pattern, which often means a type of blurring. Then, there's all the text and the banner, not to mention the oval blurb on the back cover. Care to photoshop something in there?

And if you take notice, the painting doesn't stop at the cover edge, but it wraps around to the inside, and gets partially covered by the endpages. Again, not something easily scanned and dealt with. Although in this case, they could cheat and size the painting a bit bigger. Then, how does one make a good scan job of the spine area? No mean feat.

I'm guessing they indeed used pieces of the original covers, then photoshopped 'new' art using the scans as a base. The covers I recall seeing did not look like a simple scan and touch-up.


Art of dragons doing what dragons do. Site of a friend. Dragonstuff

  

User avatar

Sage Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 2763
Joined: Sep 25, 2007
Last Visit: Feb 22, 2026

Post Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:30 pm 
 

They simply couldn't use the covers of the original books to do a reprint. It would have been blurry and taken a lot of photoshop work. The first issue would have been dealing with the dot pattern from the printer. Assuming they found one perfectly in registration (all 4 colors lined up exactly where they should be), they would have had to remove the dot pattern, which often means a type of blurring. Then, there's all the text and the banner, not to mention the oval blurb on the back cover. Care to photoshop something in there?

I'm not that familiar with the graphic design and scanning process, but what you say makes sense. Would they have had the same problem with the registration if they used one of the promo posters to scan instead (like a good clean copy as what Scketrewisp has)? Just curious. I was trying to think of other places where the artwork was reproduced such as in ads, catalogs or posters, etc, (putting aside the issue of having a wraparound cover available for the PHB in particular).

  

User avatar

Verbose Collector

Posts: 1382
Joined: Nov 03, 2008
Last Visit: Apr 07, 2026
Location: My Pad

Post Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:23 pm 
 

They still would have had the same issue with the dot pattern from the presses. I can't say I can recall the specs of the posters to say. But, in general, if the image on the poster is larger than the actual book, it might help mitigate that particular issue when reduced to size.


Art of dragons doing what dragons do. Site of a friend. Dragonstuff

  


Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5923
Joined: Nov 16, 2002
Last Visit: Jul 31, 2026
Location: Wichita, KS, USA

Post Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:08 pm 
 

I'm sure if WotC was very interested in scanning the originals, they could have done so:  IIRC Gail owns the original for the PHB and the MM (although the latter may have been sold?), and Paul Stormberg owns the DMG art (which Gail is certainly aware of).  It's not like had to track these down from scratch without any idea where they were located....


Allan Grohe (grodog@gmail.com)
Greyhawk, grodog Style

Editor and Project Manager, Black Blade Publishing
https://www.facebook.com/BlackBladePublishing/

 WWW  

User avatar

Verbose Collector

Posts: 1382
Joined: Nov 03, 2008
Last Visit: Apr 07, 2026
Location: My Pad

Post Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:01 pm 
 

grodog wrote:I'm sure if WotC was very interested...

That may be the determining factor right there.  :D


Art of dragons doing what dragons do. Site of a friend. Dragonstuff

  


Prolific Collector
Valuation Board

Posts: 681
Joined: Oct 13, 2003
Last Visit: Jul 04, 2024
Location: Denver, CO

Post Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:14 pm 
 

Jon in my opinion is one of the few people left at WotC who "gets it" - from a TSR devotee's perspective.  :lol:

I wish they would have tried harder to get the cover art, but I can't fault the overall proofing process or the end result.  These are beautiful books.

My one nit - the original books' paper was thin?  Really?  Compared to what, Wizards 4E books?  Tree trunks arrayed in plate format?  That's news to me.  :P

  

User avatar

Verbose Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 1293
Joined: Nov 24, 2002
Last Visit: Mar 27, 2026
Location: Brescia, Italy

Post Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:53 am 
 

I really look forward in getting these reprints, both for my collection and for my store. The article has raised my expectations  8)

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 430
Joined: Feb 06, 2003
Last Visit: Aug 02, 2026
Location: UK

Post Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:14 pm 
 

Are these still only going to be available in the US?

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 158
Joined: Aug 27, 2007
Last Visit: Mar 30, 2026
Location: North West, South Africa

Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:37 am 
 

Sardan wrote:Are these still only going to be available in the US?

Nope. They now have the same circulation as any new D&D release, including Amazon and other online stores.

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 141
Joined: Jul 11, 2008
Last Visit: Oct 14, 2015

Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:12 am 
 

My guess is that "thin" might have been a short way of saying that they are more translucent compared to the glossy, fake-feeling paper that's now used in most RPG books.

  

User avatar

Verbose Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 1293
Joined: Nov 24, 2002
Last Visit: Mar 27, 2026
Location: Brescia, Italy

Post Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:03 am 
 

Sardan wrote:Are these still only going to be available in the US?


No no, worldwide distribution  :D

  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1