Is "The Tomb of Horrors" horrible? • Collecting General • The Acaeum

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Is "The Tomb of Horrors" horrible?
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Keith the Thief
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:56 pm

I just spent 25 min of my life skimming the 4E "Tomb of Horrors".
Since this is an all-time favorite, I thought it'd be fun to collect the 2E, 3E, and 4E versions.
But after finally finding the actual Tomb of Horrors (sort of) buried near the rear third of the 4E book, I found myself wondering: If I bought this, would even want to read it?

I've never had a single PC survive the original.
And I realize it's got a bad reputation in that regard,
but what I saw in the 4E version were a bunch of grid maps and art work and very little substance.
It looked easy.

Disclaimer: I don't collect 2E or 3E as a rule (unless you count Pathfinder) but is this what I should expect from later editions?

If so, I may maintain my focus on 1E + Greyhawk, and OD&D + BECMI.

Thoughts?

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Kingofpain89
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:13 pm

Half the stuff I own is shit I'd never use in a million years. Crappy writing, crappy artwork or both. But I'm a collector so I usually pick it up anyway, especially if its rare and I'm looking at getting a good deal.

Ironhoof Highlands by Group One comes to mind. Its an absolute turd of an adventure. The cover art is about the ugliest I've seen and the writing is mediocre at best. But I have it in my collection because I got it for $6. I could probably stick it on Ebay and sell it for around $30 or $40 (been awhile since I've seen one though so I may be off the mark) if I wanted to. Same with Palace of the Vampire Queen. Its a bunch of rooms with random monsters and treasure with little back story and artwork.. Its crap, but I paid a buttload for it because as collectibles go it was at the top of my list.

I cracked open Ironhoof once and put it back in its plastic bag never to be opened again. And the PotVQ has only been opened once to make sure it was complete. I've never even read my copy since I have a pdf and the NTRPG reprint.

And I have quite a bit of 4E stuff that I never intend to read or play simply because I dont like the system. But I collect it nonetheless.

Seems like to me you still havent figured out if you are more of a collector or player yet.

You don't like your job, you don't strike. You go in every day and do it really half-assed. That's the American way. - Homer Simpson

Keith the Thief
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:22 pm

Kingofpain89 wrote:Seems like to me you still havent figured out if you are more of a collector or player yet.

Bingo.
I am a collector, but I seem to have moved into a gray area between
collecting and playing/DM'ing.

"Never let it be said I didn’t do the least I could do."

JasonZavoda
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:25 pm

Keith the Thief wrote:I just spent 25 min of my life skimming the 4E "Tomb of Horrors".
Since this is an all-time favorite, I thought it'd be fun to collect the 2E, 3E, and 4E versions.
But after finally finding the actual Tomb of Horrors (sort of) buried near the rear third of the 4E book, I found myself wondering: If I bought this, would even want to read it?

I've never had a single PC survive the original.
And I realize it's got a bad reputation in that regard,
but what I saw in the 4E version were a bunch of grid maps and art work and very little substance.
It looked easy.

Disclaimer: I don't collect 2E or 3E as a rule (unless you count Pathfinder) but is this what I should expect from later editions?

If so, I may maintain my focus on 1E + Greyhawk, and OD&D + BECMI.

Thoughts?

That's 25 minutes of your life you're not getting back.

Is there a Tomb of Horrors for anything besides 1e (maybe the original tournament version which would have been for D&D) but no conversions for 2e. There is the Return to the Tomb of Horrors boxed Set which is a large, involved sequel to Tomb of Horrors (Did it have a 2e conversion of the original module. I thought it just had a 1e reprint included). I thought the Return To set was pretty good but was made up of new material.

"You get more with a kind word and an excruciator than with just a kind word."

Grug Greyskin
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:31 pm

The 1E Tomb of Horrors definitely has a reputation as a PC killer, deservedly so. Never ran nor played it, and don't think I would ever do anything with it other than use it as a one off. Saw a post on Jim Raggi's blog (Lamentations of the Flame Princess) where he argued that it is not as much of a killer dungeon as its reputation - an old school party that actually through skill and wits had made it to level 9 in a tough game would be wary of the possible dangers and would have a reasonable shot. In any case, 1E had a general expectation that the characters could die, and easily, and Tomb of Horrors met that expectation in spades.

Subsequent D&D versions have lessened that possibility and expectation (of PC death), therefore, the 4E Tomb can not be a "killer dungeon," as these things simply do not exist in the 4E world. Why they decided to update it, when the very character of the original lay in the dangers, I do not know. I would imagine it is another example of a failure to recreate the magic of an iconic adventure, rather than creating their own original iconic adventure for a new era.

That being said, collecting all subsequent versions of a favorite is, in my opinion, as sound a collecting goal as any, and "actual product quality/playability" is typically low on any collector's list when answering the question "why do I need this?" so if the price is right, give it a whirl.

The 1E version is pretty common, probably available for $15 or less. Monochrome version a bit more. The 2E version (Return to The Tomb of Horrors box set) can be had I would guess in the $30 or less range. 3E I don't think had a print version, just a free .pdf. 4E not sure, but you can probably get a copy for well less than cover price.

Kingofpain89
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:38 pm

Grug Greyskin wrote:4E not sure, but you can probably get a version for well less than cover price.

The hardback release for sure. But the the DM Rewards version will go for a bit more (and it is much closer to the original 1E version). Ebay used to be littered with them but now I only see one up for a $60 BIN. Should be able to get one for around $30 to $40 though, if not less, at auction.

You don't like your job, you don't strike. You go in every day and do it really half-assed. That's the American way. - Homer Simpson

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:50 pm

IMO, the DMs Reward release is worth having. The public release is a pile of poop.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

Keith the Thief
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:52 pm

Grug Greyskin wrote:That being said, collecting all subsequent versions of a favorite is, in my opinion, as sound a collecting goal as any, and "actual product quality/playability" is typically low on any collector's list when answering the question "why do I need this?" so if the price is right, give it a whirl.

I might have, but the price was definitely *not* right.
It was at B&N, so it was retail.
Playing is rare for me these days, other than a brief period last year when I DM'ed some teens thru a home brew Mines of Moria.
But I still like to play "what if", so I tend to look at content as well as collectibility.

Grug Greyskin wrote:The 1E version is pretty common, probably available for $15 or less. Monochrome version a bit more. The 2E version (Return to The Tomb of Horrors box set) can be had I would guess in the $30 or less range. 3E I don't think had a print version, just a free .pdf. 4E not sure, but you can probably get a copy for well less than cover price.

I own the 1st, 2nd and 3rd mono prints and one of the green ones.
Just toying with the idea of getting versions across all the D&D editions.

Again, I've been torn lately about the whole collecting vs. playing thing, although there's nothing wrong with doing both, IMHO. :-)

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ashmire13
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:06 pm

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dungeons-Drag ... 370wt_1056

This will be one to own then, for those that survived it...

Rolls a '3'

"Did I hit.....?"

Keith the Thief
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:31 pm

ashmire13 wrote:
** expired/removed eBay auction **

This will be one to own then, for those that survived it...

For those who survived playing it or those who survived reading the 4E version? :-)

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Gnat the Beggar
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:44 pm

Keith the Thief wrote:
For those who survived playing it or those who survived reading the 4E version?

Both scenarios are equally deadly I think.

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Keith the Thief
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:08 pm

Back to the collecting aspect of this ...
Is there a collectible tournament version of Tomb that preceded the 1st mono?

The S-series were, in general, used at GenCon for tournaments, right?
I didn't see anything in the Modules or Rares section of The Acaeum.

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MetaSigma
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:21 pm

Keith the Thief wrote:Back to the collecting aspect of this ...
Is there a collectible tournament version of Tomb that preceded the 1st mono?

The S-series were, in general, used at GenCon for tournaments, right?
I didn't see anything in the Modules or Rares section of The Acaeum.

There wasn't a tournament version distributed at the convention, like Tsojconth, Tamoachan, or Inverness, no. But you never know what might turn up in one of the EGG auctions through Collector's Trove. I have no clue if that sort of thing will be offered, but I'd bet there's a homebrew version of the Tomb of Horrors sitting in a notebook somewhere.

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rhynne
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:19 pm

JasonZavoda wrote:
That's 25 minutes of your life you're not getting back.

Is there a Tomb of Horrors for anything besides 1e (maybe the original tournament version which would have been for D&D) but no conversions for 2e. There is the Return to the Tomb of Horrors boxed Set which is a large, involved sequel to Tomb of Horrors (Did it have a 2e conversion of the original module. I thought it just had a 1e reprint included). I thought the Return To set was pretty good but was made up of new material.

Hey Jason,

The Return to the Tomb of Horrors Boxed Set had a 1e reprint and not a 2e conversion as you suspected.

Best regards,
Ronald

benjoshua
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:39 pm

rhynne wrote:
Hey Jason,

The Return to the Tomb of Horrors Boxed Set had a 1e reprint and not a 2e conversion as you suspected.

Best regards,
Ronald

I should say that I enjoyed reading it, but would probably never want to go through it or DM it.

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Munafik
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Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:03 am

I feel that Return to the Tomb of Horrors is a great boxed set. It nicely incorporates Gygax's original adventure into a mini-campaign. It was written by Bruce Cordell, who was one of the few designers during the 2nd Edition AD&D era who continued to honor the design parameters and general aesthetics of the 1st Edition AD&D era. Almost all of his modules were homages in some way to the classc 1st Edition ones.

As an aside, for the past four years or so, I have been paying my own little homage to the classic 1st Edition AD&D modules, specifically those that were originally designed as tournament adventures, via the OSRIC system. I basically write my modules in a vacuum, ignoring all of the "developments/refinements" of the AD&D/D&D system that occurred after 1984, which, of course, coincided with the sad departure of Gary Gygax from TSR. So, if you are looking for some trap, trick, and combat-ridden dungeon crawl adventures with very little backstory to bog down play, may I humbly suggest you check out some of my adventures. I have written for the following "Old School Renaissance" companies: Usherwood Adventures (2 modules), Brave Halfling Publishing (2 modules), Expeditious Retreat Press (5 modules), and Mythmere Games (1 adventure). I would provide links to the specific adventures, but my technical savvy leaves much to be desired.

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Keith the Thief
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Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:00 pm

Munafik wrote:I feel that Return to the Tomb of Horrors is a great boxed set. It nicely incorporates Gygax's original adventure into a mini-campaign. It was written by Bruce Cordell, who was one of the few designers during the 2nd Edition AD&D era who continued to honor the design parameters and general aesthetics of the 1st Edition AD&D era. Almost all of his modules were homages in some way to the classc 1st Edition ones.

If I can pick up one on the cheap it sounds like it'd be fun to read.

TOH fascinates me.
We had 4 players, and each rolled up two or three 10th-level characters.
My players were savvy, and crazy.
None of the PCs survived.

The 4E version was *not* fun to read.
Granted, it was not a thorough study.
And yet, like most folks here, if I found one for $1 at Goodwill I would buy it.

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JasonZavoda
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Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:41 pm

Keith the Thief wrote:Back to the collecting aspect of this ...
Is there a collectible tournament version of Tomb that preceded the 1st mono?

The S-series were, in general, used at GenCon for tournaments, right?
I didn't see anything in the Modules or Rares section of The Acaeum.

There is a description in an early Alarums & Excursions of the Tomb of Horrors which was run at Origins 1. At some point there had to have been one or more copies of this D&D tournament version. Perhaps someone could find out more information about the pre-1e version of ToH?

"You get more with a kind word and an excruciator than with just a kind word."

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