LATE NEWS: UNIQUE RPG ITEM

At GenCon 1977, TSR contributor J. Eric Holmes (author of the "bluebook" version of D&D) met briefly with Rob Kuntz (co-DM of the original Greyhawk campaign and another TSR contributing writer) to talk about ideas for a revision of the old "Gods Demigods & Heroes" D&D supplement. Dr. Holmes, then Associate Professor of Neurology at the USC School of Medicine in Los Angeles, agreed to do a brief summary of the gods presented in the works of H.P. Lovecraft, for use in the upcoming book "Deities & Demigods" (by Ward & Kuntz, discussed in a post above). The credits for the hardback list thanks to Dr. Holmes "especially for his help with the Cthulhu mythos" (DDG pg 4).

We have a new entry in our database for a copy of the "Original DDG Cthulhu Manuscript" (from someone's obscure archives), including:

a. Letter from Holmes to Kuntz, 10/20/77
b. Reply from Kuntz to Holmes (undated but presumably early Nov. 1977)
c. Reply from Holmes to Kuntz, 11/22/77
d. Typed manuscript of the "Lovecraftian Mythos in Dungeons & Dragons" with many hand-written editorial notes and changes. This early text is substantially different from the published version, and includes "Yig, Supreme God of Serpeants", which is not found in DDG.

We will review this item when it arrives to confirm its originality and the (apparently extensive) differences between it and the eventual version.

burntwire brothers wrote:-Deities and Demigods original Cthulhu manuscript and letters to/from Eric Holmes(Photocopies, nothing original, but had more info than the published version)-$? I think around $180

Zenopus wrote:This might be of interest to some. I wrote a bit about a Dr. Holmes' co-authorship of the Cthulhu Mythos in D&DG (it's a revision of an earlier Dragon article by Holmes and Kuntz).

In the rec.games.frp.dnd FAQ, Aardy DeVarque notes: "The first printing of Deities & Demigods included the mythoi of Cthulhu and Melnibone.  The ideas behind the Cthulhu mythos were in the public domain at that time, but copyright on the Cthulhu books in print was owned by Arkham House, who had licensed Chaosium to create a Cthulhu RPG based on those books.  TSR thought the public domain status allowed them to create game representations of whatever Cthulhu creatures they desired, and so that mythos was added to Deities & Demigods.  TSR then contacted Michael Moorcock, who gave permission for TSR to include the Melnibonean mythos in Deities & Demigods. However, again, Chaosium had already arranged for a license to create an Elric RPG.

"Chaosium became upset that TSR was apparently violating Chaosium's licenses, and the print run of Deities & Demigods was halted while the two companies sat down to talk.  Eventually, they agreed that TSR could continue printing the books with the two mythoi as is, on the condition that a note be added to the preface: 'Special thanks are also given to Chaosium, Inc. for permission to use the material found in the Cthulhu Mythos and the Melnibonean Mythos.'  The printing plates were changed, and the first printing continued.

"When the time for a second printing came (noted as the Third print, below -- Ed.), the Blume brothers decided that a TSR book should not contain such a prominent reference to one of their competitors. They decided to remove the two mythoi, and thus the need for the note."  (Thanks to Aardy DeVarque for this info).

In 1980, when DDG was released, the game company Chaosium was already known for their games featuring Elric and Cthulhu, and they held the game-related rights for those properties. TSR hadn't touched second base and could be called Out at the Plate. So the TSR suits contacted Chaosium's suits and got permission to include this brief overview of these mythoi. In the second printing of DDG they included a paragraph (reverse side of the title page, bottom) offering Thanks to Chaosium for permission to include these details.

The next part is slightly fuzzy with time, but for some reason TSR decided to just remove these two mythoi altogether, which they did in the third and subsequent printings. Perhaps Chaosium wanted a fee; perhaps the legal details were murky; perhaps TSR just didn't want to credit another company; perhaps Cthulhu's minions (one of whom is rumored to be Top Suit at Chaosium) visited Gary Gygax late one night and made him an offer he couldn't refuse. In any event, that's how things ended up.

Zenopus wrote:Here's a funny bit I just found here:

"According to Frank Mentzer at GenCon SoCal 2003, the printings of this book were referred to internally at TSR as follows:

1st: Squids, no thanks!
2nd: Squids with thanks!
3rd and 4th: No squids with thanks! (3rd has wizard logo, 4th has face logo)
5th: No squids, no thanks!"

MetamorphosisSigma wrote:Odd. I could have sworn I read a post by Jim Ward on Dragonsfoot claiming that he had written the bulk of the Cthulhu Mythos section.