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Post Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 8:10 am 
 

If you're in the UK and you sell something, PayPal do not protect you against Chargeback if you mail something Recorded Delivery to a buyer and they refuse to take delivery. If the buyer does not take delivery of the item, it is returned to the seller, and as far a PayPal are concerned, the buyer is entitled to a full refund.

PayPal Seller Protection does not cover any item unless it is shown as 'delivered' at the recipients address. Any item that is bought by a buyer and is no longer wanted, provided the buyer refuses to receive delivery, qualified for a full refund.

So, If I buy a something from someone in the US, and I pay for a courier at say $78, and the item is couriered to me, I can then refuse delivery, and claim my money back, and the seller gets stiffed to for $78 with no claim against anyone unless he wants to take it through the small claims court in the UK.

That's a good way of screwing a company or a seller if you don't like them or they piss you off. Seems to be a flaw in selling to international buyers to me. This is the second time this has happened to me since Xmas from buyers in Spain, so I guess Spain is one for the blocked buyers list.

I lose more money than I gain to the tune of maybe 2 to 1, by selling to Spain, Greece and Italy. This seems to be symptomatic of either corruption in the country's postal systems, or maybe underdeveloped public services, or just a different moral structure in general. Either way, I'm probably safer by not shipping to this area of the world unless I really know the individual.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

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Post Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 9:08 am 
 

The odd time I sell spain and Italy on not on the list.  Too many issues with those two countries :(


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Post Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 9:15 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:If you're in the UK and you sell something, PayPal do not protect you against Chargeback if you mail something Recorded Delivery to a buyer and they refuse to take delivery. If the buyer does not take delivery of the item, it is returned to the seller, and as far a PayPal are concerned, the buyer is entitled to a full refund.

PayPal Seller Protection does not cover any item unless it is shown as 'delivered' at the recipients address. Any item that is bought by a buyer and is no longer wanted, provided the buyer refuses to receive delivery, qualified for a full refund.

So, If I buy a something from someone in the US, and I pay for a courier at say $78, and the item is couriered to me, I can then refuse delivery, and claim my money back, and the seller gets stiffed to for $78 with no claim against anyone unless he wants to take it through the small claims court in the UK.

That's a good way of screwing a company or a seller if you don't like them or they piss you off. Seems to be a flaw in selling to international buyers to me. This is the second time this has happened to me since Xmas from buyers in Spain, so I guess Spain is one for the blocked buyers list.

I lose more money than I gain to the tune of maybe 2 to 1, by selling to Spain, Greece and Italy. This seems to be symptomatic of either corruption in the country's postal systems, or maybe underdeveloped public services, or just a different moral structure in general. Either way, I'm probably safer by not shipping to this area of the world unless I really know the individual.


I don't have any problems with Spain. The only problems with Italy are the long drawn out customs checks that can take weeks; as long as I can reassure the Italian buyer the package will eventually arrive, it's ok. But that can be nervewracking at times and I'm sure they've dinged my DSRs before through no fault of mine due to a month delivery time. Greece, with the recent unrest and riots, I doubt I will ship to anymore. I had a package lost to there last year, although it was only a paperback worth a few bucks.  Also, with all the violence there, it's not out of the question a postal vehicle will get torched or vandalized with my package inside. Not worth the risk anymore. Plus, it's on record that Greece (and Italy) is one of the most corrupt and poorly staffed postal services in the world.

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 11:52 am 
 

I have for a long time been excluding Italy from my auctions due to corruption in their public institutions and organised crime within the postal system there. Things took a turn for the better maybe a year ago when the EU decided we no longer had to declare values on packeges sent within the EU, so now I don't have to declare that something is worth £50 or £100, and not attract attention to the thieves in the system. But I lost too much in the previous years, I'm not going to risk it until the country  earns a reputation for being more honest and reliable.

Greece used to be a big black hole, and seems to remain so.

Spain used to be okay, although trackable postage is a relatively new thing and they are a developing country in those respects, but my experiences with selling to Spanish buyers have been more a case of the inherent dishonesty with the types of Spaniards who buy from me, than about the postal system per se. That may be specific to the Spanish people who buy from me, or it may be a reflection of Spanish society and morals as a whole, who knows. Either way, I cannot trust Spanish buyers to be honest when buying online and will avoid them.

It has been rare that I have had any issue with selling to the US, and given that maybe 80% of the value of my trade is with US buyers (therefore statistically you'd expect more problems and I experience practically none), it goes a long way to define the difference developed infrastructures in countries, and those 'developed' countries that are only beginning to develope their infrastructures.

I don't know what the issue is with the Med'. Maybe they run their contries on the basis of not investing in public services, or maybe the pay in public service is so low compared to private business that only a certain type of person works in them. Or maybe their laws are insufficient and these sorts of jobs attract crime and corruption. Or, maybe it's an eBay specific thing and the types of med' folks that shop on eBay. Who knows.

I'm sure my perception cannot be too far from the mark as it has developed over years of selling online. Better safe than sorry though. It's a shame eBay make it so complicated to block countries and their bidders. I've listed stuff and excluded countries from my listing in the dialog boxes where you select who you'd like to ship to, and still had buyers manage to bid who are on the excluded list. Just can't get my head round it.


Back on subject - Be warned that PayPal do not protect you against a buer who changes their mind and refuses to take delivery of your item. The buyer can change their mind at any point up to placing a signature to receive the goods, and is entitled to a full refund if they want to pull out of the purchase. The seller must pay all the postage costs. I've only had Spaniards pull this on me so far, but it may become more frequent as buyers find out they can do this. And if you're a buyer and you don't like someone, it's a foolproof way to sock it to them without doing anything wrong, braeking any rules, or breaking any laws.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

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