I've been thinking of these as the same game system. How are they different?

Blackmoor wrote:(just played Gamma World last weekend, it was a hoot)

Which one?  Don't tell me you have been playing the edition based on the D&D 4th edition rules.  No one around this part of the world seems to be playing it since all of the game stores are stocked full with it and no one is buying it (according to the clerks anyway).

Actually, the Gamma World WotC currently has on the shelves would qualify as 7th Edition, though it's based on the Abomination.

1st
2d
3d (Using the dreaded Marvel Super Heroes-style ACT table)
4th (Based on AD&D 2d Edition)
5th (Based on Alternity)
6th (Omega World, Polyhedron Magazine)
7th (Based on the Abomination)

And then there was the d20 Gamma World produced by Sword & Sorcery Studios that was generally seen as a major turd.

With all of this, the best edition was 2d, especially if you take the experience mechanic from 1st and house rule it into the 2d edition system.

I am finding that Pathfinder has hidden pitfalls.  Nothing drastic.  It's just that the character classes have been given minor abilities to choose from...and those minor abilities add up over time to increased character power.  This is somewhat balanced by increase monster power level.

My players have characters that at 9th-10th levels.  The rules haven't broken yet (for those of you who know what I mean) but there are elements that haven't gone the way I'd planned.

There are also small annoyances in the skills system.  These are minor things that chip at the dungeon master's traditional control of the game.  These can be mitigated by small dungeon master strategies (like...roll knowledge and perception skill checks for characters and keep the results secret), or by very simple house rules.

One of the best things about Pathfinder, from a dungeon master's point of view, is the great flexibility in the monster creation rules.  Many "rules" in 3.5 have been changed to "guidelines" in Pathfinder, giving the dungeon master more control.

Of course, the idea of a dungeon master needing to get control is anathema to players of older versions of the game.  This idea is much more familiar to players of D&D 3.5, where the rules can be excruciatingly specific.  My comments are mostly in comparison of Pathfinder and 3.5

With Paizo cranking out multiple modules each month, and supplements flying off the shelves, the Pathfinder brand name is growing in power every week, while 4th Edition constantly sends signals that it is weakening.

PaizoCon III is just weeks away.  This year, I wised up and purchased a ticket to the Saturday night banquet.  They sold out fast.  

Traveller wrote:Actually, the Gamma World WotC currently has on the shelves would qualify as 7th Edition, though it's based on the Abomination.

1st
2d
3d (Using the dreaded Marvel Super Heroes-style ACT table)
4th (Based on AD&D 2d Edition)
5th (Based on Alternity)
6th (Omega World, Polyhedron Magazine)
7th (Based on the Abomination)

And then there was the d20 Gamma World produced by Sword & Sorcery Studios that was generally seen as a major turd.

With all of this, the best edition was 2d, especially if you take the experience mechanic from 1st and house rule it into the 2d edition system.

I actually think the 4th edition plays very well if you can't find the 2nd edition anywhere.

Mike B.

Willowisp wrote:2e. is merely a cleaned up, clarified version of 1e.- what a revision ought to be. There were some ambigus and clunky parts to 1e.; 2e. streamlines all of that. Its "advancement rules" are "broken" if you want to see your PCs actually become more personally powerful; but, that's really the only problematic part with the system. I use the 1e. advancement method, but give a PC the benefits of one "Rank" as well as those they get for "levelling".

4e. is pretty on paper; but has some significant problems. It is much more of a "new school" game: PC hit points spiral out of control; PCs are already significantly more powerful than their predecessors were- partly due to an ill-designed "class system" added into the mix; the crunch of the game is significantly expanded (although certainly still playable in its complexity); and above all this, the sin of "ballence" has been committed within the PC generation system, so that now all characters are pretty much on an even kiel powerwise- which makes for a much more boring game.

If I were choosing, it would be no contest. 2e. all the way.

Source: http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewt ... 20&t=42337

My search fu is failing me, but at one point on this board I had a post outlining the differences between editions up to Omega World. But one poster in that thread other than me said the following regarding the advancement problem.

Just to contribute a small domar or two to make this a BIT more than a "me too" post though, 2nd IS much better when you add back in the level advancement from 1st; just use the 1st game's mechanics but ALSO award all the benifits from 2nd when an increse is gained, except the mandatory +1 CHR (this is replaced by the 1st's bonus). Works like a charm. I might keep the 2nd's terminology or "ranks" just for the feel, but that's just an astethic issue.......

That's all you've gotta do to fix 2d Edition.

Thanks for the link; I don't make it over the Dragonsfoot often, so didn't think to look there. I like the open-endedness of 1e just fine, and nothing of the little I've read/heard about 2e makes any of the revisions sound especially necessary (and the two 2e modules seem very railroady), so I think I'll just stick with the original and house-rule/interpret it as needed. Plus, unlike some, I'm not a fan of Easley's or Elmore's artwork; it just grates on my nerves.

MetamorphosisSigma wrote:
We were talking about Gamma World, but nevertheless I completely agree  about AD&D. Sorry to derail the thread.. Back to 3.5/PF .

Ah...I completely misunderstood.

Going back to the OP, this link connects to the free conversion document (although I think you need a Paizo account to download it): http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy89m6

That question pops up from time to time on the Paizo boards, and there is no definitive answer. The above document helps, but there are a number of changes to spells as well. Off the top of my head, things like divine power and find the path.

The way some feats work, like Cleave and Power Attack, have changed.

Classes have generally received a boost, most especially melee classes, although in some cases as noted above spells have been nerfed a little. The reason for the boost is to encourage sticking with one class.

Other changes include grappling (and other combat manoeuvres have been simplified), the polymorph school, and so on.