Having only seen 1 of those (and only browsed it for about 5 minutes at a bookstore) I will say that this site is by far the better resource.

It also has the added benefit of being interactive, has valuations that are at least marginally useful, and is free.

But again, I guess it depends on what you are using it for.

There is far more information freely available online, all easily available and on the whole, more accurate and more amenable than in any printed volume.

That being the case, other than for nostalgia reasons, or to be 'complete', why would someone need a book to tell them about what they collect? And why would someone choose a book that predetermines the boundaries within which it going to be useful?

If there were a collectors guide that was complete and accurate in its entirity, and didn't say, this we won't tell you about, and that we won't tell you about because we're not interested in that, so the information stops here. And we don't know this, and we don't know that. Then I can see a marketable product that would have considerable success. But as that is probably not really possible, as even the web currently has limites, then I see no marketable success of a product in this niche.

At the time of printing, HW was as complete and monumental as could be envisioned, but it was only a marginal success. Yet of all the books, it is the most useful and most complete. The other two have only ever been marketed online and through private sales, have never been marketed in book stores, stocked in libraries, and were generally the whims of dedicated hobbyist who had no intent to publish a magnum opus or a big hitter. Both the other product were marketted squarely at the eBay/Forums market and not at the worldwide gamer market, and I'm sure their sales reflect that decision.

All in all, why would anyone pay for something that is already freely available online, unless it represents good value for money? On that score, again, only HW scores a hit, as it can often be picked up cheap and is surprisingly voluminous and succinct.

mbassoc2003 wrote:There is far more information freely available online, all easily available and on the whole, more accurate and more amenable than in any printed volume.

There's a lot to be said for having it "all" collected in one place, rather than having to cast about on the Internet until you find what you need. The information (or most of it) is probably available somewhere on the Internet, but hardly "easily" available, and there's no more guarantee of accuracy online than in a published volume, less if you ask me (and I have no clue how information can be "amenable", but anyway).

We were all beginning collectors at one point, and most of us are not experts on every game or publisher. A one-volume attempt at a universal RPG knowledge compendium is quite useful to the neophyte, though obviously no substitute for ongoing communication with more experience and knowledgeable collectors (e.g. the Acaeum membership). Heroic Worlds would be a hell of a place to begin if you were starting a collection from scratch. It gives a good sense of what's out there, without bogging you down in pedantic detail.

Actually, HW is really interesting for non-(A)D&D RPGs, especially to begin collecting as Meta said. I am not sure it would be useful if you decide to collect (A)D&D, but for this, there is Acaeum

Re. Cross referencing and checklists.

I can see the point, but are we not looking at this from an aged viewpoint. There is a single source of informaion on the internet. Google. The difference is the manner in which we search and filter information. Having someone filter info in the way they see fit and then give it to you in a sheet because that;s how they see the scope of their collection is neither helpful nor informative ourside of beginner collector of a certain age. And that is a helluva small market to try to sell books to, especially if you choose to then try to reach them over the internet.

HW works because it was the right product in the right format at that time, and we all hand around on Acaeum because it's the right product in the right format for this time.

The other two products do not work other than to give their authors the feeling of having become self published authors. They have no way of reaching the gamer market and no value to the gamer community outside of the few old skool beginner collector who is uncomfortable with the internet world. One was a cheap 'lets see if I can sell this on eBay' type book that came out pre-Lulu and was an astonishing failure. The other was discussed at length on the forum in a hope of preventing the same fate.

There will be another success in this niche, that is innevitable, but as to what it is or when it may happen, we can only guess at. But without an author who is passionate enough to deliver, and knows the market landscape, all you get is another failure. The problem is every author becomes blinded by their book and thinks its good will sell, and 99 thimes out of a hundred they either then produce something merely mediocre because they think 'that's good enough' and are wrong, or they simply think the market landscape and their audience are a certain way, and they are incorrect and they produce something that is good but won't sell in the marketplace because they get the market wrong.

HW fell foul of being good and targetting a market that was too small and inaccessible, whereas the other two are merely mediocre works that could have been better and have no real marketable interest outside of the online forums anyways.

If I had to put money on a possible success in this micro-genre, I'd say you need a group of developers who collect together every single piece of information about every single product there is out there, and they live with it and develop it for years until it has become their entire adult life's obsession. And at the point where they are so supremely arrogant that they believe between them that they know everything there is to knwo, they burn the whole thing to Bluray, we may be getting close to an information age Heroic Worlds. I'd buy that for a dollar.

Good point, and that is definitely where the Internet has the edge. A Heroic Worlds-type publication with pictures big enough to see detail like that would be prohibitively expensive to produce.

MetamorphosisSigma wrote:The "Ultimate Unofficial" guides seem to simply collect info from sites like the Acaeum and regurgitate it...

As the co-author of the UUCGs, I would like to say that this is absolutely not true. In point of fact, when creating the books, I do not even have the Acaeum's information (or anyone else's) in front of me. Instead, I have the actual physical product in front of me (from my personal library). I will not deny that I use the Acaeum and similar to reference and cross-check (as does any good author or researcher - crediting those sources in their work, which I have). I will also point out, yet again, that the UUCGs contain much information on each item that is NOT included on the Acaeum.

I have been on the Acaeum for MANY years. In fact, I started my search for a COMPLETE list of all D&D products over a decade ago. I found many good partial lists (the Acaeum, for instance, focuses on 1st Edition AD&D and previous). I waited for someone to put IN PRINT a complete list. When no one did after 8 years of waiting, I knew it was time I did, so I have.

If you would like to check it further, please see http://gamers-rule.com/UUCG.aspx and feel free to check the samples.

I'm happy to continue this discussion here, or I will answer questions via email (GamersRule@usa.com) or PM. But the slanderous comments have to stop. Thank you very much.


Debbie

So there's the ulterior motive.  
UUCG is absolute sh!te. It has been mocked in other threads here, and on many forums over the years, so I'm sure you're already aware of its repute in the collecting communities. I suppose that's why you didn't come straight out and say it.
Congrads are in order for getting yourself in print before Lulu made it so easy for every guy and their dog to jump on the self publish bandwagon.
It was just a very bad product, poorly put together, and published with no understanding of the customer or the market. You'll know all this already having first hand experience of its sales.

So this'll be you angling for a better handle on what is actually needed in the market at the moment, who your buyers really are, and what they think and want before going in to print. That's a good sign, I suppose, but I don't think you truely understand the size of the task ahead if you want to hit that market with a product that will succeed well.

Good Luck anyhoo.

And all I ever see you 'contribute' to the site is a question about information on a certain product..

I think a few guys here fell for the polite requests and gave scans and info to you for free and for which they were given a free copy of UUBagofshite and consequently, having read it, they didn't give a very warm review/reception. I can find the thread if you like....