http://www.play.com/Gadgets/Gadgets/4-/ ... oduct.html

Available for a fair price in the UK too, for those that may want it. Half tempted..

Looks like Amazon has it for cheap right now:

http://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons- ... 0786956291

For that price I might have to pick it up.

As long as it's not a repack of their other starter set:

http://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons- ... 0786948205

That thing was an abortion in a box.

It does sound like they've used some of the same design ideas though (cardboard counters, battle mat,and size of the books).  I wonder what speed they plan on rolling out the other levels.

JasonZavoda wrote:A few notes.

Quick scan of the players and DMs books.

This is freaking scam. The big boxed set covers levels 1 and 2 in an extremely abbreviated form. You create characters in only the most general way with very few options in regard to armor, weapons, spells, etc... It seems like a glossy but dumbed down kind of Hero Quest.

And that is another thing. This appears to be a miniatures game. I am hoping it will be a fun miniatures game, but it seems to be about as much of an RPG as Hero Quest.

Now the reason I say it is a scam is a look at the cover. Classic D&D cover art, red box, should be all you need to start a real D&D RPG campaign, and from what I have seen it is nothing like that at all. Instead any semblance of an actual rulebook is in the next release. This is just a demo box rather than the basic game rules that it resembles.

Anyway, tried to redemption code and couldn't even find where to enter it in. The website DungeonandDragons.com/code just takes you to the Wotc D&D home page. if anyone has a link to where you can use the redemption code please let me know.

The comment about 4th being as much of an RPG as Hero Quest, really sums it up.

And as for the craptastic contents of the box. Well that's what you get when you have a company that has no interest in the rpg community and only wants to make thier share holders happy.

I have reached the last battle in the players handbook ( a solo paragraph style mini, mini adventure, well series of combat encounters,). It gives a step by step character creation for the completely uninitiated player, which is fine. My 1st level dwarf has 34 hit points, is +7 to hit, and +8 to damage and can heal himself 11 times a day for 8 hp each time. He can heal himself for 8 points, move and attack in a single turn. He can increase his attack bonus or damage bonus each turn by changing his stance and has numerous other bonuses to start with. And this is the slimmed down version of 4e.

Combat is based on a grid map so the rules follow along traditional tactical boardgame style.

What the players handbook does not contain are the basics in designing anything except these uber powerful cookie cutter characters. No examples of a roleplaying adventure, just straightforward hack and slash. There are no lists of any kind, no experience tables, no magic user spell lists, no equipment lists, nothing to indicate what a player can look forward to at 2nd level (nuclear weapons perhaps?). Maybe all this is in the DMs book which I will be reading next.

If the essentials set isn't 4.5 edition then why the next set of books. This red box only handles levels 1 and 2, but the next item they want you to buy takes characters to level 30. Isn't that what the core rulebooks are suppossed to do?

This box set is a demo, not a game system. All it does is showcase a few character classes and a handful of abilities. Then try to get you to buy another 1/2 dozen rulebooks. If this is 4e then why would anyone who owns the core rulebooks put their money into more core rulebooks (unless they contain different information?) Or is this an attempt at a different rulesystem?

I just can't see what Wotc is trying to do except to make more money in the short term by selling core rulebooks all over again.

SoulCatcher78 wrote:
lol, go Amazon sellers  

I did find some information about the rest of the line that's hitting this year.  Some of it seems like a pretty good idea (the tile set for instance).

http://critical-hits.com/2010/07/20/a-d ... ssentials/

4E might not be the thing for everyone but at least they are trying to attract new players with a low(er) cost starter (which is expandable, unlike previous starter sets from WOTC).

And...here is the funniest line from the link above:

You can ignore this and keep playing with the stuff you have. D&D is still D&D regardless of whether you play with the original un-errata'd Players Handbook or the entire set of D&D Essentials.

OR, using the same logic, you could ignore it all and keep playing 3.5.

Crimsonspire wrote:
I went to the ACD Game Day, and according to Wizards at their seminar, the style of the box and the true purpose of it is to get the "lapsed" players from the 80s. I feel it's going to backfire, anyone who has played back then and stopped will most likely be turned off from what they get from it.

The players book is designed for either someone very young, or someone who can't handle even the most mild rulebook. The essentials boxed set is equivalent to the World of Warcraft 7 day free trial (though this one will cost $20). They are hoping to give players enough of a taste to buy the next rulebook. Another core rulebook ( or 6 core rulebooks according to the advertising sheet in the box).

The 'basic' rules from the 80's gave the players a grounding in the game system which could provide months of play before needing the next higher level rulebook.

It was also a Roleplaying game, this is tactical fantasy miniatures game with roleplaying elements. For example, the closest this comes to roleplaying is this:

"Modes of the Game:
In a typical D&D game session, play shifts in and out of 5 basic modes: setup, exploration, conversation, encounter and passing time.

Conversation:

A conversation with a character controlled by the DM is not usually an encounter, with specific goals and a real chance of failure. The adventurers simply ask questions, and the DM's character responds. Sometimes a skill check is involved - usually Bluff, Diplomacy,Intimidate, Insight or Perception. Often the charcaters trade questions and answers until the adventurers have the information they need to make a decision and carry it out.

Converstation mode ends in one of two ways. Either the conversation ends and the adventurers move on their way, lapsing back into Exploration mode, or the conversation escalates into a skill challenge or combat encounter.

Passing Time:

The game has a rhythm and flow and the action of the game is interspersed with lulls. These lulls are like the places where a movie fades to black and comes up again with the understanding that some time has passed. Rarely give these situation any more time than movies do. When a rest period passess uneventfully, tell the players that fact and then move on. Gloss over mundane, unexciting details and get back to the heroic action as soon as possible."


Well so much for roleplaying. Actually use of the imagination and involvement in a fantasy world is a "lull" filled with "unexciting detail" and a Dm should "rarely give these situations any more time than movies do."  At this point I am not sure if 4e as a miniatures game is going to be 'filled with terrific options' or 'needlessly complex' but it fails completely as an RPG unless the DM goes back to a previous edition for some advice on running an actual Roleplaying game. The fact that it is grossly overpowered even at first level with the players starting out with more hitpoints and bonuses than many 5th level AD&D characters robs the players of some fo the best, most enjoyable and truly rewarding experiences of an RPG completely.

Limited strength, limited options, equals increased imagination and the sense of accomplishment that is missing when the game is padded with super powers and combat encounters are its main focus. Roleplaying games are games of the mind and the imagination, this is a boardgame, I just hope it is a fun boardgame.

End Conversation Mode.

FormCritic wrote:
And...here is the funniest line from the link above:

You can ignore this and keep playing with the stuff you have. D&D is still D&D regardless of whether you play with the original un-errata'd Players Handbook or the entire set of D&D Essentials.

OR, using the same logic, you could ignore it all and keep playing 3.5.

AMEN BROTHER!!!