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Zenfinite
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:21 pm

JasonZavoda wrote:
Wow, I'd say A Game of Thrones was a badly constructed piece of crap. Gygax's novels have some great elements in them, and some real awful parts as well. Some of the dialogue is cringe worthy, but the books themselves are invaluable as source material for a Greyhawk campaign. Sea of Death presents the City out of Mind in such a way that it begs to be worked into a module. In a similar way, A Game of Thrones has some excellent ideas, but the novel is excruciating and repugnant.

There are some great fantasy novels out there. The Appendix N suggestions cover a good number of them.

This is why I rarely listen to reviews on most subjects. Whether or not someone likes something is soooooo subjective as to be almost useless. I LOVE the Martin series and rank it high in my personal book rankings. To each their own.

Zen

P.S. Reviews on which TV is the best, vacuum cleaner, Blu-Ray player, etc etc, those I listen to, 'cause they're usually backed by science, not opinion. Otherwise, man, you're sunk on opinion.

FormCritic
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:25 pm

Keith the Thief wrote:
I reckon I'm kinda, sorta what you might call a snob when it comes to novels :-/

I have this tendency to nit-pick characters, plot, setting, etc.

The best fantasy novel I've read in years and years is A Game of Thrones by George R.R. Martin.

These three statements do NOT belong together.

(Did I just fall into an alternate universe where 1 + 1 = 7? :scratch:

)

"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

Keith the Thief
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:43 am

JasonZavoda wrote:
Wow, I'd say A Game of Thrones was a badly constructed piece of crap. Gygax's novels have some great elements in them, and some real awful parts as well. Some of the dialogue is cringe worthy, but the books themselves are invaluable as source material for a Greyhawk campaign. Sea of Death presents the City out of Mind in such a way that it begs to be worked into a module. In a similar way, A Game of Thrones has some excellent ideas, but the novel is excruciating and repugnant.

I thoroughly enjoyed A Game of Thrones.
Particularly the characters, the War of Roses setting, and the fact that it wasn't formula fiction.
Granted, the build-up is slow, but I found the characters three-dimensional and unpredictable.
That unpredictability was one of things I thought was cool.
Especially when a character I had gotten to know bought the farm.
There wasn't a whole lot of magic, so I guess that's a downside.
And the writing style could've been improved.
But you could say that for LOTR as well.
Overall I thought it was epic and high-quality.
JMHO.

JasonZavoda wrote:There are some great fantasy novels out there. The Appendix N suggestions cover a good number of them.

I'm sure there are.
Sword and sorcery and high fantasy are not my favorite genres.
I prefer contemporary fantasy and magic realism, e.g., Bradbury, Ellison, Gaiman, Garcia Marquez, Jorge Luis Borges, etc

"Never let it be said I didn’t do the least I could do."

Keith the Thief
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:01 am

FormCritic wrote:
These three statements do NOT belong together.

(Did I just fall into an alternate universe where 1 + 1 = 7? )

1) Snobbiness: I don't really like formula fiction.
Take The Da Vinci Code for example.
Mega-best-seller, right?
And the concept behind it did not bother me.
After all, it's nothing new.
But it was new to a lot of 21st century readers.
What bothered me were the cardboards characters, idiotic plot, and pacing.
Which I gather is the same criticism you and Jason may have for AGoT.

2) I edit a lot (especially since my own stuff sucks) so I tend to put on my editor's hat when I'm reading.
And I did when I read A Game of Thrones, too.
G.R.R. Martin was not very disciplined with POV.

3) I just don't read much genre fantasy.
So, that wasn't really a fair statement.

Again, just my opinions ...

FormCritic wrote:Did I just fall into an alternate universe where 1 + 1 = 7?

Yes. It's nice here. Daffy Duck and Porky Pig are running through a Dali painting.

"Never let it be said I didn’t do the least I could do."

Echohawk
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:32 am

Keith the Thief wrote:But you could say that for LOTR as well.

I've always held the view that as good as LotR is, it would have been even better had a skilled and somewhat ruthless editor been let loose on it before publication. (I also generally don't voice that point of view in public, lest I be lynched.)

FormCritic
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:36 pm

I'm in an alternative universe where Game of Thrones is good writing!

(Of course, that's not a comment on its entertainment value. I have read the entire series so far and I keep returning to them to find out what happens to the dwarf, Tyrion Lannister. So, I guess I can't pretend to be too snotty about it.

I just wish one of the characters would actually arrive somewhere just once, instead of wanding about endlessly for multiple chapters and books without a perceivable point.

For Martin, "story" means "journey." His characters never seem to get anywhere until they suddenly fall dead...having ignored all warning signs right up until the moment they get killed or are forced to flee.)

C.S. Lewis tried to warn Tolkien about all the songs. The theatre audience reaction when Vigo Mortenson starts singing at the end of The Return of the King made me squirm. People who hadn't read Tolkien were unaware that The Lord of the Rings is essentially a musical.

"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

FormCritic
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:38 pm

By the way, the original Dune movie should have been a musical.

"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

Keith the Thief
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:11 pm

FormCritic wrote:By the way, the original Dune movie should have been a musical.

With Streisand playing Lady Jessica?

"Never let it be said I didn’t do the least I could do."

JasonZavoda
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:27 pm

FormCritic wrote:By the way, the original Dune movie should have been a musical.

You mean it wasn't?

"You get more with a kind word and an excruciator than with just a kind word."

FormCritic
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:18 pm

The Songs of Dune, The Musical:

Ring of Fire (opening credits, exactly as performed by Johnny Cash)

Oh, A Fremen is a Person on Arrakis

Born On A Dune I Say

Bene Gessirit Boogie (To the tune of Goin' To a Gogo by the Rolling Stones)

Sympathy for the Baron

Stairway to Jihad (Jessica's theme)

Riding the Storm Out (exactly as performed by REO Speedwagon)

Spice Spice Baby

Dude Looks Like a Prophet

Ballad of Paul and Chani (to the tune by John Lennon)

Shine On You Crazy Feydakeen

Wierding Modules (to the tune of Everyday People by Sly and the Family Stone)

Worm With No Name

Dust in the Wind (taking the Water of Life, as performed by Kansas)

Goodbye Beast Raban (to the tune by Elton John)

Don't Cry for Me Arakeen (the big finale number)

Carry On My Wayward Son (closing credits, as performed by Kansas)

"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

Last edited by FormCritic on Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rhynne
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:38 pm

FormCritic wrote:The Songs of Dune, The Musical:

Don't Cry for Me Arakeen (the big finale number)

Damn it, now I've got that song stuck in my head...

Best regards,
Ronald

Keith the Thief
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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:13 pm

This has got to be in The Acaeum's off-topic Hall of Fame!

"Never let it be said I didn’t do the least I could do."

FormCritic
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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:20 pm

Yah...kinda noticed I jacked the thread. D'oh :wink:

"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

Keith the Thief
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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:22 pm

FormCritic wrote:Yah...kinda noticed I jacked the thread. D'oh :wink:

I think it's hilarious!

"Never let it be said I didn’t do the least I could do."

Invincible Overlord
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Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:07 am

Keith the Thief wrote:This has got to be in The Acaeum's off-topic Hall of Fame!

Worse than being Rick-Rolled...

RPGâ€™s, D&D in particular has had a major influence in my life. Itâ€™s bonded me together with life long friends...itâ€™s that bond in life not just as friends, but in our jokes, our mannerisms, and what we find funny. Invincible Overlord

Keith the Thief
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Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:08 pm

Invincible Overlord wrote:
Worse than being Rick-Rolled...

What is "rick-rolled"?

"Never let it be said I didn’t do the least I could do."

benjoshua
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Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:20 pm

Rickrolled:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rickrolling

Truth is worth finding and life is too short to work for money.

Keith the Thief
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Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:46 pm

benjoshua wrote:Rickrolled:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rickrolling

I've learned something new!
That's pretty funny.

And it reminds me: Did I read that The Acaeum has its own wiki?
If so, what's the link?

"Never let it be said I didn’t do the least I could do."

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