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Post Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:17 pm 
 

I'm not arguing that it hasn't, it just makes me mad when things are clearly getting being fixed (within days, or even hours) right in front of his eyes and he just rants about how nothing will be fixed and that we aren't doing anything about it. He also doesn't seem to understand that we can't fix things over night and that we have many different departments and thousands upon thousands of items to manage.  

Why yes, T&T has not reasonably met your expectations and for that I am truly sorry and I am doing everything I can to turn the experiences others may have in the future into better ones.  

Conversely, no, we are not sitting around doing nothing to improve things. In fact several things that were posted about in this thread are being actively talked about with upper-management and some of them have flat out already changed because we did them ourselves.  Someone trained in shipping and receiving doesn't know how people want their RPG's shipped because he has never had to deal with them.  Because of this, we investigated and are now most likely going to be carrying M-Bags in the future and we eliminated one of the ways hardcovers were shipped.

serleran wrote:
OK, that means everything has a picture... why then use stock/static photos? Unless you meant "one of each item/product number has its picture taken?" I can understand that it takes some time to snap snap and then sort the snappies to the product it belongs (though computerization makes this very simple), but I would, and do, and will hesitate to buy based on not seeing the actual item. I'm sure it's a different experience in person at a convention, but I don't have that fortune.


Yes, everything should have a picture of one of the items we actually have in stock.  The problem with this is that we receive books all the time. It would take a ridiculous amount of time to  take individual pictures of them all and then map them to the website. The organization it would take would completely change how our current system works which involves about 170 people being re-trained. I can only see problems with this happening. Some books we have several hundred of as well, this is why we use stock photos. We take the stock photos our selves but they are still technically stock.  As for the higher end items, thats being looked at it.  I want it done, you want it done and thats really all there is to it. If product development has a problem with it then I think it would be wise to search for a new PD guy because he clearly does not care what happens with the company.

  


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Post Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:27 pm 
 

serleran wrote:
OK, that means everything has a picture... why then use stock/static photos? Unless you meant "one of each item/product number has its picture taken?" I can understand that it takes some time to snap snap and then sort the snappies to the product it belongs (though computerization makes this very simple), but I would, and do, and will hesitate to buy based on not seeing the actual item. I'm sure it's a different experience in person at a convention, but I don't have that fortune.


No, if say we get in 10 copies of Plane Below, and it was missing a picture, only one copy is pulled and a picture is taken of it. We are limited by programming on having a picture for each item currently.

  


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Post Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:34 pm 
 

Traveller wrote:If you're truly interested in improving the company, and not just paying the people on this forum lip service because they called you out on your company's bullshit, then listen up.

1. Your first step in improving the company's image is ensure that people are hired who not only want to work there, but also know what they are doing. To be blunt, a person who cannot tell the difference between a book and a box set, even at the size of the 21st Century reprints, doesn't give a damn about the job. At worst he should be shuffled to another department where his "talents" can be put to better use. At best, let go. Because you do not need people working in your company who are only there for the paycheck.

2. Your second step is to promptly answer concerns from your customers and take appropriate measures to correct them, WITHOUT getting defensive or offending your customer. As a case in point I'll use an experience I had on the QuickLink Interactive edition of the Chronicles of the Imperium forums. I offered a fan supplement for free download from there that could not be used WITHOUT having at least Basic Traveller and the owner of the company deleted the link and threatened me with banning. He did this in public, which is the absolute WORST thing he could have done. In public I replied that his behavior was unacceptable and if he wanted to keep his customers he should take his concerns to private messaging. In private I handed him his hat, so to speak, and made damn sure he knew that he lost a customer and that I would let everyone I came across know that the man had no idea how to deal with customers.

The man didn't know how to properly address his customers, and thus ensured that I would never buy or download any product of his as long as he was in business, unless I knew he could not profit from it (used book or less legitimate means). For the most part, I limited myself to making sure people knew how much of an ass he was and that if they chose to deal with him, they did so knowing what could happen.

3. Your third step is accurately listing what you have in your warehouse. You've already taken steps toward correcting the listing issues, however you seem resistant to the idea of photographing every single item in your warehouse. Realistically, how difficult could it possibly be to link the image to the product number? Simple example: if you have catalog number 09-26480, and three copies of it, you take a picture of the first item and name it 09-26480-01.jpg. Name the second and third 09-26480-02.jpg and 09-26480-03.jpg. That way you keep the picture with the item and that way there is NO confusion as to what it goes to.

However, it would be incumbent upon the person maintaining the pages to have a little honor and integrity and not take shortcuts as has been done in the past with the usage of stock shots. That goes back to number 1, and hiring people who give a damn about the business.

P. S. Before you ask, I've been on both sides of the fence. I have been managed by others, and have managed others. Count your blessings that you don't always have to deal with your customers in person, like I did, 25-50 hours a week, for 23 years.


haha I know how dealing with customers is, I go work at cons and get to deal with those people and I also ran a store of my own before I moved up here.

As for your points:

1. Completely valid, I have no argument.  The problem is supply. The town were in is 3500 people and we employ 5 percent of the population. that percentage shoots way up when you consider the amount of people of working age. I wish everyone cared but its just a job to them and they are doing menial tasks.  We will be moving to a larger city in October and believe me, I really hope some of the people working here stay behind and we hire better ones.  

2. Fair, I have a bit of a temper and I definitely get defensive when someone is just blatantly attacking me with no real reason other than "I hate you." Useful I can deal with.  

3. I have two questions for you. What other online reseller has pictures of every item they have? Also, how many items do you think we have in stock? Because we currently have 72,888 items in stock with another few hundred waiting to get put into the warehouse. At the projected 16 cents per book (at a pretty ridiculous speed of one minute!) that would be $11,662.00 not to mention the cost of the workers who pull them out and put them back in. We are looking at over 20k to do that. As much as I would love to have that happen, its just not.


ashmire13 wrote:I may have missed it, but who is responsible for descriptions of items on ebay?


Currently it is automatically pulled from the website stock and should use the description from the website. We have had a lot of problems on ebay since they changed the programming. Including our boardgames showing up in the pottery category. I still don't know how that happened but they still sell.  I guess people are interested in expanding their horizons, or they like using bad games as fertilizer :-D

  

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Post Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:43 pm 
 

Jchriddy, regarding point 3, it's a valid counterpoint, and one that I address in the following reply directed at Crimsonspire regarding his claim that it would require retraining 170 people to be able to accommodate taking pictures of every item.

Crimsonspire,

It's not difficult at all. It's simply that the company is unwilling to make what is in essence a minor change, and for the life of me I cannot understand why. It's not as difficult as you're making it sound. You have a station set up in your warehouse where every item is given its stock number, do you not? After the item receives its stock number it is passed on to a second station, located next to the first, where the item is photographed and given a unique filename. Then the items are stocked and and website updated.

If something is currently in print, such as Castles & Crusades, then by all means take a stock shot. However, your out of print items and the collectibles MUST have individual pictures or you will not have people buying them. I think that's been made abundantly clear here by the responses.



  


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Post Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:50 pm 
 

Traveller wrote:Jchriddy, regarding point 3, it's a valid counterpoint, and one that I address in the following reply directed at Crimsonspire regarding his claim that it would require retraining 170 people to be able to accommodate taking pictures of every item.

Crimsonspire,

It's not difficult at all. It's simply that the company is unwilling to make what is in essence a minor change, and for the life of me I cannot understand why. It's not as difficult as you're making it sound. You have a station set up in your warehouse where every item is given its stock number, do you not? After the item receives its stock number it is passed on to a second station, located next to the first, where the item is photographed and given a unique filename. Then the items are stocked and and website updated.

edit: I mean that for higher end items with multiples instock.

Edit: I mean that for items with multiple in stock for the higher end ones.

If something is currently in print, such as Castles & Crusades, then by all means take a stock shot. However, your out of print items and the collectibles MUST have individual pictures or you will not have people buying them. I think that's been made abundantly clear here by the responses.


Jchriddy mentioned the 170 people not me, I said that due to programming of our website, we are unable at this time till the website is updated and redone to do this, for higher priced and collectible items, we can store the files of pictures and if someone is interested to see exactly what it looks like then we could forward them scans of it.

  


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Post Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:04 pm 
 

Jchriddy wrote:
Currently it is automatically pulled from the website stock and should use the description from the website. We have had a lot of problems on ebay since they changed the programming. Including our boardgames showing up in the pottery category. I still don't know how that happened but they still sell.  I guess people are interested in expanding their horizons, or they like using bad games as fertilizer :-D


If you can cut the maybe, might have, could possibly out of the descriptions, it'd take a lot of the BS out of the situation.

From what the guys here are saying, who have bought from you, there appears to be a 50-50 (ish) split on good over bad sales. And it seems you tend to put it right if there are maps/dice/books missing.

But surely, it'd be a huge boost for you guys and actually reduce work for you with the returns etc, if someone made the descriptions accurate?  :?


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Post Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:06 pm 
 

Hi,

my wife has over 100,000 different items in her store database :)

Just thought I would throw that one in :)

Cheers,
Malc


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Post Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:08 pm 
 

Crimsonspire wrote:
No, if say we get in 10 copies of Plane Below, and it was missing a picture, only one copy is pulled and a picture is taken of it. We are limited by programming on having a picture for each item currently.


OK. For my sake I hope you get some better programming. :) Heheh.


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Post Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:28 pm 
 

Serleran: Yeah our current IT department are reworking and fixing the programming from years ago so it's been a battle lol. I'm looking forward to a reworked site so we can make things a lot more efficient and user friendly.

Ashmire13: Since starting in January and fixing and correcting the grading mistakes, and naming mistakes we have had a vastly reduced number of complaints and returns, the grading descriptions are blanket descriptions keyed to it's type. Noble Knight uses a similar system for their grading with May Haves also. After the weekend i'll see what we can do about adding detailed description of it's condition to the product description for the rarer items.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:31 pm 
 

bombadil wrote:Not that name calling's in order, but I think Ian is simply stating reasonable facts, and T&T has consistently, in my experience, displayed ignorance with their products, either intentionally or incidentally.  I've dealt with them three times, and every single incident has been a disaster.  EVERY item I've purchased from them was not as advertised, described on the site, or depicted in the accompanying photo/scan, and that was a total of about 10 items in those three transactions.  What are the odds of that happening by chance?

he whole point is, they then get their staff to come on here (or people purporting to be trepresenting the company) and say that the reason is that their staff are ignorant and have no interest or experience with RPG products and they can't be bothered describing items correctly, telling the truth about condition and completeness, or taking photographs of items because it was all done some time ago and they ain't gonna get off their a$$es and do it.

For a company to come on a forum and publicly declare the reasons for not cleaning up their act over the years, make excuses and promises, and then come back on with the same horsesh't excuses a year later, is downright rude and demonstrated utter contempt for the concerns of their customers and the advice and criticism offered over the years by the members of the forum.

I've not read so much cr@p in a long time. T&T have their equivolents in the UK, but they are not so foolish to come on the forum and make excuses for their activities.

I can accept that when you have 40 copies of Dungeon 124 in stock in NM condition, you can have one description and one photo, and pick from a box of them. But when you're selling a copy of a book retailing and say $40 and you're describing it as 'might have damage, might be missing pullouts or pages, possibly torn and we can't be bothered taking a photo of it or telling you honestly about what you're buying', or worse, you say it's a boxed set, take a photo of a book, and then describe a completely different product, and could be shipping any one of the three to the customer, you cannot justify that on a thread by saying 'It costs too much to take photos and we can't employ staff who care about doing the job.'

If you're gonna give lip service to this, at least be honest about it. Then you'd have made your position clear and have the kudos of having told us to like it or lump it.


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Post Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:05 pm 
 

Crimsonspire wrote:
Jchriddy mentioned the 170 people not me, I said that due to programming of our website, we are unable at this time till the website is updated and redone to do this, for higher priced and collectible items, we can store the files of pictures and if someone is interested to see exactly what it looks like then we could forward them scans of it.

Quite honestly, at this point in time it does not matter who said what. You and all your compatriots represent the company, and these people are bringing their concerns to you. What is your response?

Passing the buck and whining about retraining.

It's your business, but your number one priority is to your customers, past, present, and future. You are doing a massive disservice to those customers by not doing whatever it takes to correct the problems you have. Given the five pages of discussion on this thread, and heaven knows how many other pages on this forum in other threads, you show little sign of changing things.

If it was MY company and I knew that a significant fraction of customers were complaining about a website issue, a grading issue, or a picture issue, you bet your lily white asses something would be done IMMEDIATELY to correct the problem. Because in my hypothetical business, my number one priority IS MY CUSTOMER.

I have given you bullet points to follow, and yes you have declared all those points to be valid, though in the case of pictures, with qualification. Yet I see a post from a Troll & Toad representative whining because to implement the essential process of each and every collectible or out of print item having its own picture would require the training of 170 employees?

Look. I don't shop at Troll & Toad. I don't shop at Noble Knight either. For the most part my role playing game purchases are not for the latest and greatest of anything. But I do know that I would avoid Troll & Toad like the plague simply because it seems no one in your company can be bothered to correct the issues you people have. I have a feeling that if you do correct these things it will be done half-assed, just like Sears.

Sears has been steadily going downhill for the last decade, losing sales to competitors who actually price realistically, have people who know the product, and most of all, give a damn about the customer. If you want to be Sears, continue down this path.

Spend the time, and spend the money. Get the warehouse monkeys retrained. Get the equipment and the processes set up, and stop complaining. Take the short term hit on your profit & loss statement, get it done, and stop giving excuses. It makes you look silly.



  

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Post Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:50 pm 
 

Jchriddy wrote:We are looking at over 20k to do that. As much as I would love to have that happen, its just not.


I think this sums it up pretty well.  For a company that has sales estimates of $1 - 2.5 million dollars a year, 20k is a drop in the bucket.  You guys probably fart more than that away on needless "business expenses".  To come here saying you are going to fix things and then crying poverty as an excuse not to do it is ridiculous or as many of us here think - putting the troll into Troll & Toad.

Maybe it would be a better tactic to come to our forum after you have made some changes to show you are making progress.  I can recall the whole issue of your stock photos being stolen pictures from other sites (such as this one as well) and then claiming you owned copyright on them.  Anyone remember how many years it took for that problem to get fixed?  In the end, it wasn't even a T&T employee that sorted most of it out.  I guess that was a money issue as well - sorry but I don't have the time to rewrite your website software.

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:49 am 
 

I've got to say, I really don't know why Troll and Toad bother posting here at all. Basically speaking we are just not their target audience so why would they care less about what we think?




** expired/removed eBay auction **




Read the description of this item - a complete mess, and goes to show its not just OOP D&D that gets listed poorly. BUT - it doesn't matter - I would imagine that T&T are making good money out of the gaming industry, and there are not many that could have said that over the years!



I've never personally dealt with T&T but I'm sure from comments posted here by people whose opinion I would trust, that their customer service sucks. But what do they care - their system works for them. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone here when I say I would not run a business in the manner that they do, but then who am I to judge, it works for them. Perhaps it would work even better 'our' way, but who can say.



We could (and will :D ) continue the T&T threads until we are all grey(er) and old(er), but money says things will never really change.



Like I say, I just don't know why they bother posting here.



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Post Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:56 am 
 

:lol:   Sums it up well!

Like I posted early on, this is the 3rd TnT employee turning out the same old BS ultimately. Dont try and justify weak excuses when its proven you operate the same way across the board.
I'll bet a £ to a pinch of sh*t, that in 6 months another manager in RPGs will be posting here... :roll:


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:07 am 
 

Hmm.. well, I have to admire their balls in turning up here at all.

And also their hopefullness in getting things straight.

But, as you say, there have been so many false promises in the past :(

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:29 am 
 

Maybe what we need is a Toad to come to the forum and type. The Trolls are just trolling the thread trying to wind collectors up.

Maybe when someone with some intelligence and responsibility can be bothered getting off their arse we'll see progress. As it is, these PR people have neither the integrity nor ability to affect change in their company. They are just shoved out to blow sunshine up their company's ass in the hope that they'll deflect criticism and stem the level of negative online threads about them.

Let's see someone with integrity and honesty here who has the ability and power within the company to make changes. Keep the PR idiots away, because they have neither the intelligence nor authority to make decisions, and one barely has the wisdow or common sense to talk for the company, without stumbling over or contradicting what the other one is saying.

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:42 am 
 

Maybe if we keep our idiots away from this thread as well, the level of discourse will improve...

  

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:25 am 
 

MetamorphosisSigma wrote:Maybe if we keep our idiots away from this thread as well, the level of discourse will improve...


Yep, nothing like a few trolling comments to turn the path of this one - its been so productive so far  :roll:

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