bombadil wrote:Well I'm interested in conceal and am left handed. As I understand it the 19 gen 4 is ambidextrous. In general, is the Glock durable and reliable? Have read some things about spent casings jamming or flying into your face.

I'm 5'10" about 185 lbs. The 19 fits my hand almost perfectly, it's the tiniest bit small. Glock makes one of the most durable and reliable handguns out there. I've run thousands of rounds thru mine and never had a problem. Jacketed and bare lead, just gotta clean it real good after the bare lead. Spent cases jam when you don't hold the firearm firmly enough. You really need to give it a solid base to fire from....a loose wrist causes it to jam. That's why I tend to not recommend it to women. For the price, I don't know of a better gun. Just one man's opinion.  

Zenfinite

The glock looks like a nice gun.  And, I agree .45ACP gets expensive to burn through at the range.  Don't forget that many people buy guns and end up reselling them quickly.  If you go to a local gun show you could get lucky and find a Brown/Baer or Kimber for a good price.  Many people don't bother to look for guns that have a much higher initial price point simply because they assume they won't pay that much.  I bought a Kimber SIS Ultra at a local gun show that had never been fired for $700.  That's only a slight premium over the Glock that interests you for a much finer gun.  An older man (near 80) bought this Kimber new and traded it in for something else.  The slide was so tight that it was a knee bending knuckle scraping experience to engage it until 4 or 5 rounds had gone through.  (It's slides with absolutely no wobble but like butter now).   I later met the original owner and it dawned on me that he couldn't pull the slide and traded it in frustration.  FYI, the SIS is on a 3" frame, but the patterns are quite amazing and tighter than almost all full frame guns at local ranges.

Also, you might look into a reloading press to get costs down by half or better.  I have been looking for a great deal on a decent press for a while.  (FYI, I would trade for a higher end .45ACP and/or shotgun multistage press.

I don't like 9mm for two reasons.  Target shooting is fun, but like many, my guns are mainly for personal defense.  The Texas folks had a judge that took a slew of those things to his chest and lived, due to being fat.  If the punk gangs were using .45ACP instead of 9mm.... and they were sober and knew how to shoot they would be dead,  instead of using your money and mine supplementing their recovery at public funded wound clinics.  I hope to never have to use a gun for personal defense, but I would rather take a chance on talking my way out of danger than to pick up a gun that might not get the job done against a fat axxor or a meth/crack head.

Re: guns and women (or men) who aren't strong enough to hold them firmly or engage a butt safety while shooting.  They need to flee if possible and not fight.  Engaging someone dangerous essentially unprepared increases your odds of being killed.  Realistically, even armed, most of us could not stop a robbery if someone simply walks up behind us with a gun.  And, if one or two thugs approach with guns and advantage.... even if they are high if you can't stop them in a shot or two.... you likely already lost.







(FYI, I would trade for reloading equipment for shotguns or .45ACP).

Zenfinite wrote:

Pipswich wrote:I don't like 9mm for two reasons.  Target shooting is fun, but like many, my guns are mainly for personal defense.  The Texas folks had a judge that took a slew of those things to his chest and lived, due to being fat.  If the punk gangs were using .45ACP instead of 9mm.... and they were sober and knew how to shoot they would be dead,  instead of using your money and mine supplementing their recovery at public funded wound clinics.  I hope to never have to use a gun for personal defense, but I would rather take a chance on talking my way out of danger than to pick up a gun that might not get the job done against a fat axxor or a meth/crack head.

These reasons are why I use hollow points. They get the job done.

Zenfinite

Hollow points are best for home defense, prevents the bullets from tearing through the scumbags body and injuring someone else in the house or in the house next door.

Mike B.

I'll stick with my Mossberg 12 gauge.  I won't miss and odds are one shot is all it will take to drop the intruder, especially if I hit 'em in the face.  

For carry = Kimber.
For home defense = Semiauto 12guage loaded with various annoying projectiles.  None, as nice as standard buckshot.

I love gun talk....it takes me back a decade or two.

Only Americans consider the 9MM parabellum to be a light round.  Everywhere else, it is the standard military pistol and submachinegun round and is thought of as high calibre.

Gun manufacturers for the American market have long known that, given any comparable choice between price, availability, ammo capacity, etc American civilian customers will always choose the higher calibre weapon.

This conversation must sound really strange to Acaeum members from other countries.  Do Canadians ever talk like this?  I doubt anyone else does.     (Possibly Mexicans?)  I gather the Swiss don't fool around with pistols...going right to the assault rifle in their closet.

The Mossberg Persuader 12 gauge is what you want under your bed.  It is relatively inexpensive and is frightfully effective.  (Just the sound it makes when you work the slide!)  I suggest bird shot over the more macho 00 buck.  A hammerless .38 is what you want in your pocket...but your pants will fall down if you try it.

(This is probably taught in home economics class in Texas.   )

I stopped carrying a pistol, and let my concealed carry license lapse, when I realized that I was being foolish.  I had no heart to use it.  

Used to play Shadowrun a lot....

FormCritic wrote:This conversation must sound really strange to Acaeum members from other countries.  Do Canadians ever talk like this?  I doubt anyone else does.     (Possibly Mexicans?)....

Lol.

Personally, I keep a bolt action 30 06 beside the bed. Love the sound of a bolt, but likely impracticle in that situation compared to a 12 gauge pump.

The Glock would be for carrying.

MetamorphosisSigma wrote:What hell, guys? Is this an NRA convention? What more do you need than a Taiwanese-made punch knife under your pillow, and a bronze eagle-headed cane next to the doorway? You Texans make me think I need to start getting paranoid...

EDIT: Makes me wonder where the hell you guys have chosen to live. All of the criminals/miscreants/troublemakers I've seen up this way I could take with my bare hands and feet, or a stern talking-to. Is it really that wild down there? And if so, wouldn't you be doing more good by writing your congressman?

Well, when I first applied for my carry permit, I was a field construction worker. I used to work out of town quite a bit, and lived in fleabag motels for a month or two as I worked. Paychecks get cashed, and I'd have say 15k in cash at the end of the job, in a tiny ass room with a lock that locked in name only. A gun makes you feel WAY better in such a situation. When I was home, I spent a LOT of time in Philadelphia, quite often late at night after a club or something for a couple hours. Again, having a gun makes you feel much, much better. I've never had a situation where I was forced to use my firearm, but, as a wise man once said: I'd rather have a gun and not need it, than need a gun and not have it.

So, short answer, yes. If you end up in the wrong place in Philly, your bare hands and feet or a talking-to just gets you killed. Now that I live in New Jersey, and cannot legally carry, when I go around in Philly, I am more worried....for sure.

Zenfinite

Zenfinite wrote:

MetamorphosisSigma wrote:What hell, guys? Is this an NRA convention? What more do you need than a Taiwanese-made punch knife under your pillow, and a bronze eagle-headed cane next to the doorway? You Texans make me think I need to start getting paranoid...

EDIT: Makes me wonder where the hell you guys have chosen to live. All of the criminals/miscreants/troublemakers I've seen up this way I could take with my bare hands and feet, or a stern talking-to. Is it really that wild down there? And if so, wouldn't you be doing more good by writing your congressman?

Well, when I first applied for my carry permit, I was a field construction worker. I used to work out of town quite a bit, and lived in fleabag motels for a month or two as I worked. Paychecks get cashed, and I'd have say 15k in cash at the end of the job, in a tiny ass room with a lock that locked in name only. A gun makes you feel WAY better in such a situation. When I was home, I spent a LOT of time in Philadelphia, quite often late at night after a club or something for a couple hours. Again, having a gun makes you feel much, much better. I've never had a situation where I was forced to use my firearm, but, as a wise man once said: I'd rather have a gun and not need it, than need a gun and not have it.

So, short answer, yes. If you end up in the wrong place in Philly, your bare hands and feet or a talking-to just gets you killed. Now that I live in New Jersey, and cannot legally carry, when I go around in Philly, I am more worried....for sure.

Zenfinite

When I lived in Philly in the 80's I remember waking to the sound of someone sawing through the bars of the living room window with a hacksaw. I always used to keep my shotgun nearby (12 gauge mossberg pump with the pistol grip and snub barrel). If you are going to keep a weapon for home protection a pump shotgun is the way to go. I can't think of anything with greater deterrence, is easier to use and, with the proper load, less wall penetration than a shotgun. In Philly I used my shotgun once to break up a street fight outside my house. Just firing one shell into the tarmac sent everyone running and saved a friend of mine from a very nasty beating. And to no one's surprise the police never showed even though I knew people had called about the street fight and the gang of teens smashing things up after crashing a party next door.

I can't imagine things have improved in Philly. I know that violent crime and murder in Wilmington Delware have risen steadily over the last decade, and home invasion happens far to frequently.