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Post Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:56 am 
 

Vikings will crumble along the way.

the Cowboys are the most storied franchise in professional sports.

Ever heard of the Yankees? Not more storied than the Steelers? With 6 wins and a far better dynasty team... No way they even sell more merchandise than the Raiders. Texan hyperbole.
That new stadium is going to be their own house of horrors. Watch and see 8) Romo cannot win a big game. Cowboys are re-writing the book on how to lose a football game! They just play bad. They're like the Bengals now. They sometimes put up some points but they just aren't a fundamentally good football team. At least you guys have a team though! Bad as it is... Do the Texans count? Will they ever have a winning season?
They're like Detroit South! You really only have 1 team. It was like that in LA for years and years... I can relate :wink: 0 maybe better than 2.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:31 pm 
 

Yeah go Favre! If the wide receivers can just get more practice time with him the team can be a pass threat, though his interceptions will increase.
Both the Vikings and Green Bay have terrible Offensive lines this year that will need to be tweaked lest Chicago actually get on a roll.  Now what week will the Lions actually win a game? :D

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Post Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:32 pm 
 

Tharizdun wrote:Vikings will crumble along the way.


Ever heard of the Yankees? Not more storied than the Steelers? With 6 wins and a far better dynasty team... No way they even sell more merchandise than the Raiders. Texan hyperbole.


Cowboys are #1 merch sellers in the NFL. Probably less to do with the success or failure of the team and more to do with the classic look of the silver/blue star, white background, etc.  I can't understand teams that change their logo/look every few years like fashionistas; it just means their sales suck and they are trying to juice them any way possible. When you get it right the first time, why mess around with that crap?

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Post Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:36 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
Cowboys are #1 merch sellers in the NFL. Probably less to do with the success or failure of the team and more to do with the classic look of the silver/blue star, white background, etc.  I can't understand teams that change their logo/look every few years like fashionistas; it just means their sales suck and they are trying to juice them any way possible. When you get it right the first time, why mess around with that crap?

Mike B.


I think it helped Tampa Bay.  They had dismal uniforms back in the day.

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Post Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:22 pm 
 

Tharizdun wrote:Vikings will crumble along the way.


Ever heard of the Yankees? Not more storied than the Steelers? With 6 wins and a far better dynasty team... No way they even sell more merchandise than the Raiders. Texan hyperbole.


Yes, the Yankees are also a storied franchise.  They are an apt comparison to the Cowboys.

Thing about the Cowboys is, very few people are neutral about them.  You love the Cowboys or you hate them.  Either one equals TV dollars.

And yes, after six* Super Bowl wins the Steelers are approaching the Cowboys in international appeal.  Until the Cowboys win a playoff game, they will not challenge to match the Steelers' six*.

As long as there are gangsters and thugs the Raiders merchandice will have a market.

Business-wise, the Cowboys are dominant in most categories...and near the top in the others.

That's why the Sunday Night football guys were trying to get Jerry Jones to comment about his new stadium and the implications of his financial dominance if the league's shared revenue scheme collapses along with the salary cap.  Jones was pretty cagey, but everyone knows the Cowboys are in position to dominate small market teams if those financial equalizers are removed.


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Post Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:23 pm 
 

Tharizdun wrote:Vikings will crumble along the way.


Ever heard of the Yankees? Not more storied than the Steelers? With 6 wins and a far better dynasty team... No way they even sell more merchandise than the Raiders. Texan hyperbole.


Yes, the Yankees are also a storied franchise.  They are an apt comparison to the Cowboys.

Thing about the Cowboys is, very few people are neutral about them.  You love the Cowboys or you hate them.  Either one equals TV dollars.

And yes, after six* Super Bowl wins the Steelers are approaching the Cowboys in international appeal.  Until the Cowboys win a playoff game, they will not challenge to match the Steelers' six*.

As long as there are gangsters and thugs the Raiders merchandice will have a market.

Business-wise, the Cowboys are dominant in most categories...and near the top in the others.

That's why the Sunday Night football guys were trying to get Jerry Jones to comment about his new stadium and the implications of his financial dominance if the league's shared revenue scheme collapses along with the salary cap.  Jones was pretty cagey, but everyone knows the Cowboys are in position to dominate small market teams if those financial equalizers are removed.


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Post Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:35 pm 
 

ashmire13 wrote:

You heard it here first!! Go Favre!  :)


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Just wait til midseason, Brett (BTW, the most overrated QB in NFL history) will turn into the INT machine that he turns into every year.  If the Vikes go anywhere, it'll be on the back of AP.  That would be until Cris Collinsworth proclaims that they are the best team in the NFL!

  

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Post Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:12 pm 
 

sheeadog wrote:
Gagged and removed throw up from mouth

Just wait til midseason, Brett (BTW, the most overrated QB in NFL history) will turn into the INT machine that he turns into every year.  If the Vikes go anywhere, it'll be on the back of AP.  That would be until Cris Collinsworth proclaims that they are the best team in the NFL!


Im with you on Favre, Sheeadog. Wait until halfway through the season when playing on artificial turf starts taking a pounding on that old body.  

However, the one thing Favre has in his favor is AP. Bret doesn't HAVE to win the games in the air anymore, that might be the deciding factor. But I am wishing failure on the Vikes because of Favre's annoying presence.

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Post Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:15 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:
Yes, the Yankees are also a storied franchise.  They are an apt comparison to the Cowboys.

Thing about the Cowboys is, very few people are neutral about them.  You love the Cowboys or you hate them.  Either one equals TV dollars.

And yes, after six* Super Bowl wins the Steelers are approaching the Cowboys in international appeal.  Until the Cowboys win a playoff game, they will not challenge to match the Steelers' six*.

As long as there are gangsters and thugs the Raiders merchandice will have a market.

Business-wise, the Cowboys are dominant in most categories...and near the top in the others.

That's why the Sunday Night football guys were trying to get Jerry Jones to comment about his new stadium and the implications of his financial dominance if the league's shared revenue scheme collapses along with the salary cap.  Jones was pretty cagey, but everyone knows the Cowboys are in position to dominate small market teams if those financial equalizers are removed.


If anything, Jerry's bags of money from the stadium should be a huge incentive to get the salary cap back on board for the future (next year is an uncapped year, I believe, due to the lack of an agreement with the player's association).   Other teams, especially in the NFC east, do NOT want Jerry to field a Dream Team of free agents next year and for years after, then they truly would be the NFL Yankees (i.e., buying championships with their big bucks).

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Post Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:37 pm 
 

I'm torn, wanting to see Favre do good, but still hoping Green Bay can get things fixed and make it to the Super Bowl.  So there is a good chance I'll at least get to see one make it to the play offs if not both.

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Post Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:25 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:
I think it helped Tampa Bay.  They had dismal uniforms back in the day.

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Hey, those day-glo orange kits were awesome!  I believe they were developed to burn out the opposing team's retinas.   In practice they only induced a mild nausea.


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Post Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:02 pm 
 

If anything, Jerry's bags of money from the stadium should be a huge incentive to get the salary cap back on board for the future (next year is an uncapped year, I believe, due to the lack of an agreement with the player's association).   Other teams, especially in the NFC east, do NOT want Jerry to field a Dream Team of free agents next year and for years after, then they truly would be the NFL Yankees (i.e., buying championships with their big bucks).


Just curious, is this owned by JJ? Does he get all the revenue? Surely somebody "ate it" and has debts to pay as well. Free agent class coming up isn't good. The year after is a good one though! I'm sure something will be worked out... Is Dallas really a "big market" even asides from having a good new stadium? I'd guess that Houston even is larger "market wise".

Tampa Bay had good helmets back in the day, imo.

FormCritic, Come on man! Yankees, people love/hate them more than anyone :wink: You're reaching... Cowboys have too many periods of being not good to be more "storied" that Steelers. Steelers (and Vikings for that matter) are almost always at least good. Cowboys have too many gaps. My objective opinion here is all. I bet enough (and have bet enough) to know better about "The Boys"... Maybe if they're able to scrap what they have happening now and rebuild with all that stadium revenue (assuming that doesn't eat up all that extra $$$) they will put together another Super Bowl caliber team!
Oh yeah, NY gets a Billion dollar Stadium soon as well so then maybe they will be the ones who dominate? Cause they have the biggest market and everything. That and a Super Bowl caliber team already in place obv.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:21 pm 
 

Just thinking, Cowboys probably aren't even in the top 10 most storied American sports franchises.
That could change with another dynasty run of course.
Celtics and Lakers are more storied. Lakers have been to 30 NBA finals. That would be like the Cowboys going to the Super Bowl every other year since the beginning of the NFL is how much they would have to win to = that "storied" record. Celtics to less finals but won a bunch more (statistically). I think the Lakers won 15? So, the Cowboys would go to every other Superbowl (since the very begining of that franchises existence) and winning half of those Superbowls. Not even close... and they would have to keep it up until they went to 30 Superbowls obviously...

  

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Post Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:51 pm 
 

Tharizdun wrote:
Just curious, is this owned by JJ? Does he get all the revenue? Surely somebody "ate it" and has debts to pay as well. Free agent class coming up isn't good. The year after is a good one though! I'm sure something will be worked out... Is Dallas really a "big market" even asides from having a good new stadium? I'd guess that Houston even is larger "market wise".

Tampa Bay had good helmets back in the day, imo.

FormCritic, Come on man! Yankees, people love/hate them more than anyone :wink: You're reaching... Cowboys have too many periods of being not good to be more "storied" that Steelers. Steelers (and Vikings for that matter) are almost always at least good. Cowboys have too many gaps. My objective opinion here is all. I bet enough (and have bet enough) to know better about "The Boys"... Maybe if they're able to scrap what they have happening now and rebuild with all that stadium revenue (assuming that doesn't eat up all that extra $$$) they will put together another Super Bowl caliber team!
Oh yeah, NY gets a Billion dollar Stadium soon as well so then maybe they will be the ones who dominate? Cause they have the biggest market and everything. That and a Super Bowl caliber team already in place obv.


The Cowboys, with the new stadium, are actually worth more than the Yankees right now.  A multi purpose football stadium is worth much more, because you can host so many more events (not just concerts, but college football games, which bring in tons of bucks).  Jerry gets all the revenue, part of the deal he worked out when he used millions of his own money after the cost went way over.  

Besides the Yankees, there is no sports team more famous and storied than the Cowboys. Their name recognition is only second to the Yankees across the world.....you ask someone in Borneo, or Thailand, or Australia, or India to name a baseball and football team, they name the New York Yenkees and Dallas Cowboys.  

The reason teams are marketable is because of many intangibles, but these are what the Cowboys have had through their history like few other teams.  Only the Steelers, Packers, Patriots, Raiders, and the 49s have as much name recognition.  The Pats and Steelers come closest because obviously the recent superbowls, and they have been good recently, and have marque QBs. The Vikings? Don't bring that weak sauce in here. That is one huge joke of a franchise that will continue to be a joke until they win a big game someday (much like the sad sack Eagles). They had two years to get a QB to pair with their HOF RB and finally decided on a 39 year old has been who is going to sink that ship by November.  The Vikings will continue to be irrelevant.
The Giants? They are about as exciting and interesting as dirt. Eli Manning, their sour faced coach, and their group of no-names are not what fame and fortune are made of. No one out there, even sports fans, can name three players on that team (not saying they are not good, they are, but they have zero marketability). Plus, along with the Steelers, their last two superbowl winners were the weakest SB winners in history.  The Jets? They haven't been relevant since Broadway Joe.  Who else?  

Jerry played this one perfectly. His giant stadium will hopefully take attention away from the fact this is the worst stretch in Dallas Cowboy history, a 12 year wasteland. The Cowboys are going through the longest playoff drought in their history, and their longest period of irrelevancy (remember, they had 20 winning seasons from 1967 to 1987). The only other team good that long has been the Steelers (the Packers were largely worthless during that time; the 49s didn't become relevant until the late 70s and then stopped after Steve Young retired; the Pats except for the one SB appearance in the 80s and one in the 90s havent' done a thing until Tom Brady came along, etc)  The only other drought was a very short one from 1989-1990; other than that, and recently, the dominated the public imagination like no other football franchise except those I mentioned.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/09/02/nfl.valuations.ap/index.html

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Last edited by Badmike on Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:21 pm 
 

Tharizdun wrote:Just thinking, Cowboys probably aren't even in the top 10 most storied American sports franchises.
That could change with another dynasty run of course.
Celtics and Lakers are more storied. Lakers have been to 30 NBA finals. That would be like the Cowboys going to the Super Bowl every other year since the beginning of the NFL is how much they would have to win to = that "storied" record. Celtics to less finals but won a bunch more (statistically). I think the Lakers won 15? So, the Cowboys would go to every other Superbowl (since the very begining of that franchises existence) and winning half of those Superbowls. Not even close... and they would have to keep it up until they went to 30 Superbowls obviously...


Then no football team can be a storied franchise, because it's impossible to win that many superbowls...unlike basketball, football is a team sport.  NBA history is littered with only 5-6 teams winning it all through most of it's history because it's an individual sport...you get Jordan, Kobe, or Duncan, you can put 3-5 rings in your pocket.  Proves nothing except you drafted good and hung onto your superstar all those years.

Storied franchises?  You named two, which also happen to be the two most successful basketball franchises in NBA history.  You can't even put the Spurs on that list because until Tim Duncan came along they were a footnote, nor the Bulls because they were only relevant a few years during Michael Jordan's reign. So for basketball, that's it.  

Baseball? New York Yankees and the Cardinals.  Just because the Red Sox have dominated of late doesn't erase 100 years of ineptitude. Might squeeze the Dodgers (both NY and LA) in there for name recognition alone.

Hockey? Detroit Redwings. Beyond that, who cares. Hockey is a distant 4th as a sport having any significance, and that significance for the most part is all in the northeast US and Canada. Montreal Canadiens might get an honorable mention for winning so many championships in their history.

Football?  Pittsburgh Steelers are the only other football team to be as good as long and as consistently as the Cowboys in the superbowl era.  The Pats have been good this decade, but that's all.  The Packers have gone too long between the Lombardi dynasty and the Favre SB to be a truly storied franchise, although if you include their early history (when there was like 8 teams in the league and SOMEBODY had to win it all every year) you might slip them in.  The 49s had a great 1980s, but other than that, they haven't done a thing before or since Young left. A lot of other teams (Raiders for example) were good for a short period of time. Teams like the Vikings and Rams don't even get honorable mention, Vikings because they are a joke and Rams because they were as big a joke as the Vikings but managed to pull it out a few years ago, but weren't good consistently.

My top ten would be: NY Yankees, Pittsburgh Steelers, LA Lakers, Dallas Cowboys, Boston Celtics, St. Louis Cardinals, Detroit Redwings, Green Bay Packers, LA Dodgers, Montreal Canadiens (under protest).

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Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:02 am 
 

Tharizdun wrote:FormCritic, Come on man! Yankees, people love/hate them more than anyone :wink:.


Um...I looked it up on Wikipedia....the Yankees play...baseball.

Baseball!   :x

Isn't that for chicks?   :?

It's like comparing King Arthur to Guenivere.  It's like comparing Darth Vader to that Jedi chick with noodles for hair.  It's like comparing something humongously masculine and cool with something...you know...not humongously masculine and cool, or something.  :D


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:04 am 
 

Badmike wrote:
Then no football team can be a storied franchise, because it's impossible to win that many superbowls.


Yeah!  I, mean, not even the Steelers have actually won that many Super Bowls.


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:30 am 
 

I know! It's just an amazing stat, you have to admit :wink: What makes it more amazing is that they have been to 50% of the NBA finals since they came into existence.

Then no football team can be a storied franchise, because it's impossible to win that many superbowls...unlike basketball, football is a team sport. NBA history is littered with only 5-6 teams winning it all through most of it's history because it's an individual sport...you get Jordan, Kobe, or Duncan, you can put 3-5 rings in your pocket. Proves nothing except you drafted good and hung onto your superstar all those years.


Lakers had a lot of good teams to compile that record obviously. Lots of good drafts and traded well for 60 years. It's an amazing feat.

My knocks on the Cowboys are: They aren't a good team now. I just do not think that this team today will advance to a Superbowl. It has been this way for over 1 decade now. They talk a lot better game than they play... you have to admit.
The best "Dynasty" years doesn't have your best QB.
The 70's Steelers were just loaded with HOF players.
80's 49'ers were better.
2000 Patriots not as good. Better coached but lesser players.
I think the 90's Dallas Dynasty is tied for 3rd cause Pats dynasty had another Superbowl run.
Elways 90's Broncos get an honerable mention too.
Raiders were good over many years. They were called the "team of the decades" but got bad in the 90's-present asides from that short run.
How about the Browns?
1)Steelers
2)Packers
3) tie: Cowboys/49'ers = Superbowl wins. West Coast offense changed the game.
49'ers also have 2 HOF quarterbacks from that dominating run. Also knocked the Cowboys from relevance in the 80's with "The catch".

Baseball is boring as fuck but they have a lot of history... At least 3 (at least) bigger franchises history wise than any NFL team.

I'm not a Cowboys fan by the way, could you tell :twisted:

  
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