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Tsojconth valuation ?
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Deadlord
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:59 am

None taken, since your point is worthless.
The Acaeum does not set the price of rares. I thought that was made clear a while back..........................

If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

copycat
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:05 pm

Yeah, I know. That was my point.

Just didn't say it so directly.

Those who can, don't. Those who should not, do.

deimos3428
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:11 pm

serleran wrote:They might help get a vague idea of what something could theoretically achieve at auction

Yes, that's pretty much exactly what the VB intends to achieve. Personally, I think that is the measure of an item's real "worth".

However, the only time you can test the measurement of an item's worth is when it changes hands -- at which point the measurement is wrong, by defintion. It's a Heisenberg Principle thingie.

Edit: I think it's time to re-familiarize ourselves with the FAQ, guys. These pages are useful for this discussion.

http://www.acaeum.com/frontdesk/formulas.html
and
http://www.acaeum.com/frontdesk/howtouse.html
and especially
http://www.acaeum.com/frontdesk/faq.html#4

darkseraphim
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:01 pm

Hi sanguine,

The best way to have a voice in the valuation of D&D items is twofold. First, familiarize yourself with the calculations and keep a detailed price history over time. Second, express interest in joining the Valuation Board.

I believe you will find that your dedication to the first will be inversely proportional to your interest in the second, as you realize the staggering amount of work and the nebulous judgment calls required to gather a tangible set of data.

(Is that scan Near Mint? Is it Fine? I'm sure I've seen that scan before, does the seller use stock photos? If I ask, will he answer? If he does answer, will he tell me the truth? Is what he calls Excellent actually Very Good? Would I get better answers if I politely ask the buyer? Hey, wait a minute, just how many items and how many sales can I track in this manner anyway? Etc.)

The VB is actually a rather painful labor of love. It's very time-consuming and the only thing you can be 100% certain of is that someone, somewhere, will have a vested dissatisfaction in your assessments. (Personally I had to bow out some years ago as I just couldn't devote the time anymore. I'm an honorary member but I currently have no voice in valuations.)

The best assurance I can give you is that the board members are ever-mindful of the potential conflicts of interest involved in valuation, and are careful not to arbitrarily assign values, but rather to record them and to apply rational discussion to the limited data. Also bear in mind that you yourself have a conflict as you've invested a lot of money in an item and now want the item to be valued higher than what you paid.

My personal advice: Treat the hobby as a hobby, not a potential source of wealth. You'll be happier and find that your blood pressure fluctuates less as the auctions end.

Deadlord
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:24 pm

serleran wrote:Yeah, I know. That was my point.

Just didn't say it so directly.

I'm just teasing you, surly.
What annoys me is hearing "well, the Acaeum says it is worth this" or "they sell on ebay/Amazon/etc for this much". I hear this fairly frequently, and it amazes me that people can be so stupid as to use either (or both) of those as gospel for pricing. There is no guide better than experience, and even that isn't set in stone. Hell, I was asked for an estimate on the Vanquished Foe that just sold, and I was WAAAAAAY off on that one, partly due to the fact that I mentally transposed it with Labyrinthine for some weird reason, and partly because the market is ever-changing. Three years ago, maybe even two, VF would have been $200-250, but it seems the market has taken the opposite road of the economy. It was disappointing, and a bit embarassing, to let an old friend down with a bad estimate on a product about which I have some small knowledge, but it also reminded me that these things are never static, ESPECIALLY on eBay.

If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

deimos3428
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:38 pm

darkseraphim wrote:My personal advice: Treat the hobby as a hobby, not a potential source of wealth. You'll be happier and find that your blood pressure fluctuates less as the auctions end.

Hey Dark! Good to see you're still about!

Xaxaxe
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:26 pm

sauromatian wrote:What difference would it have made? This forum consistently practices hazing of new members. 95% of the newbie-bashing is dumped upon people who are trying to be as friendly & diplomatic as possible.

Utter, absolute, and complete BULLSHIT.

There is no friendlier thread on this site than the "Introduce Yourself" thread:

viewtopic.php?t=8&start=1040

And "friendly and diplomatic as possible"? Seriously, how can you type that shit with a straight face? Those who do get bashed here are not friendly or diplomatic: they are those who arrive with an agenda or with a scam, or those who, for whatever reason, cannot stop fighting a losing battle if they're not getting the answers they want to hear. Those sorts of people get bashed at every messageboard they join, though, so it's not like it makes us a special case.

Deadlord
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:42 pm

Indeed, the Introduction Thread is usually a good start, before one comes out swinging at the other members.

If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

mellmorranth
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:54 pm

Xaxaxe wrote:Utter, absolute, and complete BULLSHIT.

There is no friendlier thread on this site than the "Introduce Yourself" thread:

viewtopic.php?t=8&start=1040

And "friendly and diplomatic as possible"? Seriously, how can you type that shit with a straight face? Those who do get bashed here are not friendly or diplomatic: they are those who arrive with an agenda or with a scam, or those who, for whatever reason, cannot stop fighting a losing battle if they're not getting the answers they want to hear. Those sorts of people get bashed at every messageboard they join, though, so it's not like it makes us a special case.

i don't think it's bs. i was being pretty friendly and some idiot kept saying i was dave. not cougar, but some other dave. granted it was just one person.

deimos3428
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:00 pm

mellmorranth wrote:i don't think it's bs. i was being pretty friendly and some idiot kept saying i was dave. not cougar, but some other dave. granted it was just one person.

Some idiot? :lol:

That was bclarkie. He's not an idiot, he's our resident detective. Well, he was -- he hasn't been around lately. You must have done something he thought was suspicious. He sometimes makes mistakes.

Badmike
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:09 pm

Xaxaxe wrote:Utter, absolute, and complete BULLSHIT.

There is no friendlier thread on this site than the "Introduce Yourself" thread:

viewtopic.php?t=8&start=1040

And "friendly and diplomatic as possible"? Seriously, how can you type that shit with a straight face? Those who do get bashed here are not friendly or diplomatic: they are those who arrive with an agenda or with a scam, or those who, for whatever reason, cannot stop fighting a losing battle if they're not getting the answers they want to hear. Those sorts of people get bashed at every messageboard they join, though, so it's not like it makes us a special case.

Cmon X it's not COMPLETE bullshit...newbies get hazed here more regularly than a Psi Ep dope party at San Diego U. However, it's more welcoming than a lot of places I'll give it that, and you can make friends for life, which I've never done on any other online board. Generally, however, new posters might avoid a few things:

1. Keep it civil;
2. Don't try to re-invent the wheel;
3. If you post, know your stuff;
4. Don't have an agenda, and if you do, try to stifle it until you build up some cred and can advance it intelligently;
5. If in doubt, ask first

Everyone is welcome, even those with bogus or conspiratorial theories, as long as they aren't insulting, condescending, or trying to pull a con. And as stated I would advise the "Introduce yourself" thread, or join us on the Friday night Acaeum chat, or stick your toe in the water on the "Off Topic" thread to get started and discover the "etiquette" involved in posting here.

I don't want to come off as elitist or a pig, but man, you should KNOW YOUR STUFF if you are going to toss out theories about price manipulation or what not for your first few posts :roll:

Mike B.

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jasonw1239
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:16 pm

mellmorranth wrote:i don't think it's bs. i was being pretty friendly and some idiot kept saying i was dave. not cougar, but some other dave. granted it was just one person.

I just had a look at the thread that you referenced.
Bclarkie only gave you a hard time after you refused to post your eBay ID.
Evasive behavior usually sets off some warning bells around here in a "same old, same old" kind of way.

Check out my Chaosium sourcebook.
Secrets of Tibet

mellmorranth
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:37 pm

jasonw1239 wrote:
I just had a look at the thread that you referenced.
Bclarkie only gave you a hard time after you refused to post your eBay ID.
Evasive behavior usually sets off some warning bells around here in a "same old, same old" kind of way.

maybe. but i didn't think it was his business. it felt like he was gunning for me.

"so um, like um, gee, whats YOUR id mellmorranth..."

i should have told him i was bill cobb.

copycat
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:39 pm

I have an agenda. It is a secret, super-special agenda. One that will undermine the very fabric of the collecting world. And, I only need Cougie's help... wait, no, umm, what?

Those who can, don't. Those who should not, do.

Xaxaxe
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:54 pm

I've never seen newbie bashing here that wasn't precipitated by the new user doing one or more of the following:

1. Arriving with an agenda;

2. Arriving specifically to pick a fight;

3. Trying a scam;

4. Using multiple IDs here;

5. Adopting a complete know-it-all attitude;

6. Completely misunderstanding this site (thinking it's a 3E site, thinking it's the same as Dragonsfoot, whatever).

Never seen it. Not once.

NetRodent
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 5:29 pm

serleran wrote:I have an agenda. It is a secret, super-special agenda. One that will undermine the very fabric of the collecting world. And, I only need Cougie's help... wait, no, umm, what?

You think too small. Why limit your super secret agenda to the collecting world when you could be undermining the fabric of the whole word. :twisted:

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
--H.L. Mencken

benjoshua
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 5:32 pm

I can see both sides here. While technically there may have been no newbie bashing, there are several people on this site over the year or so I have been involved who are so direct in their communication, it can appear or feel like bashing. bclarkie comes immediately to mind and, umm, oh yeah, Xaxaxe too!

It's not a problem or a concern. I personally like straight shooters, and I don't have a chip on my shoulder so tell me I suck or I'm wrong. I know, I know, someone is going to quote this, but I don't mind.

One more thought back to an earlier point, I personally find the VB listings helpful, but not always price accurate from my own point of view. Maybe I just don't understand the formulas or something. For example, it appears to me that recently prices have jumped 10% or more, perhaps due to the Gary Gygax dying effect. But even before then, it seemed like a lot of the items have/want(rarity 1-3) were on the low side. However, it is most helpful with regard to relative values. I may not be aware of what everything is worth(to me) but if something I know is worth x amount, and something I am not familiar with is also worth x amount, I feel confident of what it's worth. So, while it might not be price accurate to me, at least it is accurate relative to all the other items important to me. Like several people have said or hinted, experience is the best teacher and if you are worried excessively about value, it can really suck the fun out the hobby.

Truth is worth finding and life is too short to work for money.

benjoshua
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 5:34 pm

serleran wrote:I have an agenda. It is a secret, super-special agenda. One that will undermine the very fabric of the collecting world. And, I only need Cougie's help... wait, no, umm, what?

Oooo! Oooo! I have an agenda too! Me too! Meeee toooo!

Truth is worth finding and life is too short to work for money.

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