Doug Williams wrote:
There was a small bookstore across the street from my high school that had an entire spinner rack of (A)D&D stuff. Dad would give me $1 to buy my lunch every day in the cafeteria. I pocketed that money, along with my yard mowing and car washing money and made an after school trip to that store at least once a week to purchase those treasures. Ah, the memories...

I thought I was the only one who chose to by game books instead of eat back in the day.

As to 4th ed. I think it's a very solid rule set and very playable.  My experience is limited though because the campaign I ran only lasted to 3rd level.  I agree with what most have said here about the tactical element of 4e.  If you don't like a battlemat, stay away.  I've been using one in my D&D games since '89 so that element doesn't bother me.

If you're the type that felt full progression casters were over-powered in previous editions, especially 3e, 4e is a definite fix. I'm not that person myself.  4e's classes are almost perfectly balanced against each other.  I find it to be at the expense of a certain amount of uniqeness between the classes.  E.g. a wizard casting magic missle doesn't really feel that much different from a fighter swinging a sword, or a ranger firing a bow.  Magic, i.e. rituals in 4e, have no use in combat they're non-combat effects.  I find them kinda expensive for whatever effect they produce.  

Healing is probably the biggest difference I found in that each character has a certain number of 'healing surges' that can be used during an encounter.  I found this led to some drawn out combats and some characters going through 2 or 3 times their total hp's in one battle.  Combat is definitely longer.  My biggest gripe with 4e is tracking conditions.  Most powers have a condition rider that lasts for a short time, usually until the the end of your next action, or until the end of the creatures next action and the like. I found tracking them very tedious.

Building encounters is easier in 4e.  Note that I'm one who actually likes CR and find it a useful tool.  What I don't like about 4e is that monsters are pretty much like previous editions in that whatever is in the stat block is what you get.  They're no where near as customizable as 3e beasties were.  Templating and leveling beasties is my favorite aspect of 3e.

If I were to play a game with my gaming friends who have the resources I'd choose 3e.  If I were to start a group of new role players I'd go with 4e, I think the learning curve is not as steep and the products are suuported and in print.  I've also heard very good things about the character builder and other on-line tools they provide.  I can't vouch for this though as I've never used them

puterdragon wrote:Having read the 4e PHB, FR Player's Guide, and Underdark books from cover to cover, I've noticed how wildly different the 4e system is from any earlier editions of D&D. Takes some gettin' used to.
Reading through modules P2 and E2, I've noticed a couple of good villains, encounter settings, and diplomacy uses--amidst the stat blocks. Still looking for a module with puzzles, riddles, and a higher encounter-per-module frequency, though. Is there anything available yet from WotC or any other publisher like this?

They just released a 4e version of tomb of horrors. I wonder how they've done the traps for 4e rules.

JasonZavoda wrote:I wonder how they've done the traps for 4e rules.

I don't think you'd like it very much.  

Traps are handled completely differently than from 1e. In a sense, they are basically encounters ... but instead of encountering a group of three goblins, you've encountered a pit trap with X statistics that can be overcome with Y skills or Z items.

Speaking generally, I think traps have been de-emphasized in every successive major edition of the D&D (or AD&D) system. That will likely change with the 4e Tomb of Horrors, but it remains to be seen whether that begins a trend or is more of a one-off occurrence.

Yeah, 3e was amazing for its templates and variable monsters. I'm guessing I'll find the 4e templates in the MM.
Okay, for me, the elements of a great module increase to include:
plot,
setting,
characters (especially villains),
traps,
puzzles (i.e., the "physics" room in an old classic),
riddles (and other word games),
unpredictable monsters (new monsters, use of teplates, wishes)
new magic items
... I wonder if there's any more?

Definitely, the NPC counter-party (for us, they used to be the nondescript but annoyingly-present Black Riders). Okay, expanded key elements:
plot,
setting,
villains,
rival parties,
traps,
puzzles,
riddles,
traditional monsters altered (by templates, wishes, radiation)
new monsters,
new magic items

I'm sort of guessing that's what's meant, since I'm just jumping in here.

But the guy on the left is definitely puzzled.  

Keith the Thief wrote:
I'm getting older by the day.

Refresh my memory on the physics room.

S2 White Plume Mountain. The room near the end of the path leading to the sword. Did you go through it?

Yes!  In fact, it was the players' fav back in the day.  I remember the art specifically, but I don't remember it being called the physics room.

Keith the Thief wrote:Yes!  In fact, it was the players' fav back in the day.  I remember the art specifically, but I don't remember it being called the physics room.

<embarassed>
Frictionless room. Thanks for clarifying.
It was one of our fun stops.