Old Random Thoughts or OT Chit-Chat Thread • Page 30 • Collecting General • The Acaeum

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Old Random Thoughts or OT Chit-Chat Thread
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SimperingToad
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Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:44 pm

mbassoc2003 wrote:What are the odds of America voting a woman into the White House?

We had one. His name was Bill Clinton. Maybe you didn't notice who wore the pants in the family.

Oh, and for the record, the citizens of the States in the U.S. (we are not a country called America) do not vote for President. We vote for electors who then cast the votes for President.

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:55 pm

SimperingToad wrote:Oh, and for the record, the citizens of the States in the U.S. (we are not a country called America) do not vote for President. We vote for electors who then cast the votes for President.

Wait. So Obama wasn't voted for by the electorate?
Obama campaigns for his party. The electorate vote for the party based on what Obama says. But when they vote, they actually mark their card for the party? And then, once the party wins, they decide who's gonna be president (and it's just down to faith that the guy who campaigned gets voted in? Is that how it works?

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

Gnat the Beggar
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Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:24 pm

How Business is conducted?

The $100 note

It is the month of August on the shores of the Black Sea; The little town looks totally deserted.
Times are tough, everybody is in debt and every one is living on credit.

One day a rich American tourist comes to town.
He goes in to the only hotel and puts a $100 note down, saying he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs before he selects one.

The hotel manager takes the note and runs to the butcher to pay his debt.

The butcher takes the note runs to the pig farmer to pay off his debt.

The pig farmer, with the note, then runs to the feed and fuel merchant to clear his debt.

The feed and fuel merchant then pays off the local prostitute, who in these tough times has been giving her 'services' on credit.

In turn the prostitute goes to the hotel to pay for the rooms she rented there to entertain her clients.

The hotel manager puts the $100 note back on the counter so everything appears normal.

Just then the rich American tourist returns, after inspecting the rooms, picks up his note saying he doesn't like any of the rooms and leaves the town.

No one has earned anything but the whole town is free of debt and is very optimistic about the future.........

And that, my dear friends, is exactly how Barrack Obama's government is doing business today.

"Guys, I am starting to think Tegel Manor might be haunted..."
Stated by me as a PC during a run of Tegel Manor DMed by killjoy at NTRPGCon 2010

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FormCritic
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Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:07 pm

mbassoc2003 wrote:Wait. So Obama wasn't voted for by the electorate?
Obama campaigns for his party. The electorate vote for the party based on what Obama says. But when they vote, they actually mark their card for the party? And then, once the party wins, they decide who's gonna be president (and it's just down to faith that the guy who campaigned gets voted in? Is that how it works?

Each state has a set number of electoral votes.

Electors are pledged to vote for a specific candidate.

Whoever wins the state wins all the electoral votes for that state and his electors are the ones who go to the "electoral college."

The electoral college officially votes in the President.

It is possible to win the "electoral vote" without winning the "popular vote." This has happened once or twice.

In practice, the results are usually the same, but it also means that as a resident of a Democrat state my Republican vote counts 0 instead of 1.

"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:17 pm

So, all the republican electors say "we'll vote for Mr X", and all the democrat electors say "We'll vote for Mr Z". In another state the republican electors could say "We'll vote for Mr A" and the democrats, Mr B.
If the democrates win in one state, that counts as the number of electors for that democratic candidate?
Or is it a case that everyone votes in a state, and if the democrats win, then the entire state is decreed 'democrat' and say 12 electors count towards the democratic vote for the White House, regardless of whether four of the electors were republican and 8 democrat?

Are these electors acrually real people (ie, whoever was voted in in town A, whoever represents City B etc), or are they just notional votes on a scoring system?

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

FormCritic
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Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:34 pm

mbassoc2003 wrote:So, all the republican electors say "we'll vote for Mr X", and all the democrat electors say "We'll vote for Mr Z". In another state the republican electors could say "We'll vote for Mr A" and the democrats, Mr B.
If the democrates win in one state, that counts as the number of electors for that democratic candidate?
Or is it a case that everyone votes in a state, and if the democrats win, then the entire state is decreed 'democrat' and say 12 electors count towards the democratic vote for the White House, regardless of whether four of the electors were republican and 8 democrat?

Are these electors acrually real people (ie, whoever was voted in in town A, whoever represents City B etc), or are they just notional votes on a scoring system?

The electors are real people, but it does not really matter who they are. Each party has a set of electors they want to send to the electoral college.

The voting is all or nothing, so if a Republican had 50.1% and a Democrat had 49.9% all of that state's electoral votes would go Republican.

In most cases it is a matter of who in the state party would like to take a trip to Washington D.C. as an elector. I've been told it is fun and interesting.

In theory, an elector is a free agent who could cast any vote he/she wants in the electoral college. In practice the electors vote for the candidate they supported all along.

Certain states are a Republican lock and others are a Democrat lock. Some states might go either way and are called "swing" states. When a swing state has a lot of electoral votes...like Florida or Pennsylvania...they can be called "battleground" states.

It sounds odd from a British point of view but you have to remember that American states are sovereign governments banded together under a federal system. Federal law is very important but it is state law that most directly influences all of our lives.

"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:48 pm

Ah. Right.
So Republicans have 12 guys from State X who are prepared to go Washington, and so do the Democrats. They all campaign and if the vote goes Republican, all 12 go to Washington.
If the neighbouring state votes Democrat then their, say 10, electors go to Washington, and if when all the electors are counted up there are 300 Republicans and 250 Democrats, the Republicans get to vote among themselves to decide who gets to be President.
The President is one of the electors.

I get the stable state and swing state thing. We have the same thing in the UK. We call them poor people. They vote Labour because it's what their parents did and they've never learned to think for themselves. That's why they live on benefits and work in factories.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

FormCritic
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Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:10 pm

mbassoc2003 wrote:The President is one of the electors.

No, the President is not one of the electors.

In theory, that is possible, but it has never happened.

The only real function the electors have is to cast one vote each for President. The vote itself is a formality because, barring some really wierd circumstance, the electors' votes are known in advance.

The Republicans in State X could vote for a different candidate than the Republicans in State Y, but in practice the party has already elected a single candidate in the primary elections and that's who they vote for.

"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

benjoshua
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Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:16 pm

There were some election problems with the initial election system way back in the early 1800's and even before. As a result, the twelfth amendment was passed in 1804.

It could be said the current system is undemocratic but the current system supposedly helps protect rights of smaller states. The current Electoral College system has had alternatives submitted, but nothing has ever passed the Congress and probably never will. This system has resulted in strange political pushes in one state or another. One year, my TV is bombarded with political commercials and the next year there's hardly any. It remains mostly a mystery to me, but I'd rather congress fix the economy than worry about this right now.

To me, the most amazing part of all of this the relatively peaceful transfer of power from one set of people to another. It's something we take for granted until you've lived in a country for a while and then you can't go back for all the fighting. It's not a perfect system, but few people talk about it until they lose an election. :wink:

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SimperingToad
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Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:39 pm

The last time I checked (which was not very recently), the exact method to determine who gets the electoral votes was left up to the States. It was roughly a 50/50 split as to 'winner takes all' versus the electors being split percentage-wise according to popular vote.

I personally am not worried about things being undemocratic, as we are a Republic, not a Democracy. Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Voting itself is democratic, but the citizenry only gets to vote on certain things. Our 'representatives' (and I use the term very loosly these days) in the Federal Congress or State government do the rest.

Gnat the Beggar
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Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:44 pm

mbassoc2003 wrote:Ah. Right....

We have the same thing in the UK. We call them poor people. They vote Labour because it's what their parents did and they've never learned to think for themselves. That's why they live on benefits and work in factories.

Those folks call themselves Mulit-Generational Democrats here in the States.

"Guys, I am starting to think Tegel Manor might be haunted..."
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mbassoc2003
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Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:58 pm

In the UK a 'multi-generational' Labour voter lives in a squalid council house, smokes, drinks, has Sky TV, works in a factory, delivers mail or drives a bus, or is unemployed, collects as many supplementary benefits they can screw ourt of the tax payer, goes to football every weekend, and either has children he never sees, has children he doesn't like or has children who are in jail. He left school before exams, drives a 10 year old car that he has problems maintaining, only has third party insurance, has a criminal record of some sort (probably for fighting outside a pub), and goes on holiday once a year to some cheap nightclub resort in Spain.

I presume a 'multi-generational Democrat supporter' then is someone who lives on a project or in a trailer, and has a series of relationships, most of which have resulted in children? Or is your voting demographic differently split from ours?

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

ashmire13
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Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:05 pm

mbassoc2003 wrote:In the UK a 'multi-generational' Labour voter lives in a squalid council house, smokes, drinks, has Sky TV, works in a factory, delivers mail or drives a bus, or is unemployed, collects as many supplementary benefits they can screw ourt of the tax payer, goes to football every weekend, and either has children he never sees, has children he doesn't like or has children who are in jail. He left school before exams, drives a 10 year old car that he has problems maintaining, only has third party insurance, has a criminal record of some sort (probably for fighting outside a pub), and goes on holiday once a year to some cheap nightclub resort in Spain.

I'd distance myself from that... :wink:

But replace 'Labour' for 'BNP' now in certain demographic areas... :roll:

Rolls a '3'

"Did I hit.....?"

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:11 pm

I though they were the same.

Isn't the BNP, Labour's militant facist wing?

The Conservatives have the same thing, they just call them the Green Party, and let them have cheese and wine do's and complain about traffic. The militants sit in roads and write on bedsheets with crayon.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

ashmire13
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Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:46 am

oh, I thought it was the other way round now...

Rolls a '3'

"Did I hit.....?"

benjoshua
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Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:02 pm

I have never looked at the "Totally Bizarre" category items for sale on eBay, and I will never go there again!

http://cgi.ebay.com/BONER-BOBS-BETTY-BO ... 286.c0.m14

Truth is worth finding and life is too short to work for money.

SoulCatcher78
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Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:20 pm

benjoshua wrote:I have never looked at the "Totally Bizarre" category items for sale on eBay, and I will never go there again!

** expired/removed eBay auction **

One day I will learn not to click on things after I have been warned...kinda like that hot stove thing.

ashmire13
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Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:40 pm

SoulCatcher78 wrote:
One day I will learn not to click on things after I have been warned...kinda like that hot stove thing.

What do they say about curiosity... I just had to click and look.... :roll:

Rolls a '3'

"Did I hit.....?"

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