FormCritic wrote:
Stuff?  What is there in Afghanistan that we want?

Dirt?  Rocks?  Impassable mountains?  Scrub grass?  Burkhas?  Turbans?  

We don't need Afghanistan to get heroin supplies.  We can get that from China via Mexico.

We're in Afghanistan because a bunch of nutbirds used its chaos as a safe harbor to attack us.

We're still in Afghanistan because we're too soft-hearted to either leave them in the lurch or do the cruel things that must be done there.

Stuff?  No.

You certainly have a more inspiring outlook than I, but the leaders of the country may appear soft-headed, they are not soft-hearted.

Nations, even the USA, take action because of self interest. Stuff can be goods, like heroin, or resources like oil, or power such as positioning a military force in the middle east, or posturing (saving face or commanding respect) such as slapping down a regions most powerful military or crushing a few countries (that needed crushing, but hell, a lot of countries need to be crushed and we don't do it).

FormCritic wrote:This topic is a mistake and we should drop it.

I agree, no politics or religion at the dinner table.

FormCritic wrote:This topic is a mistake and we should drop it.

Why?

I'm not offended... discourse is nice. I like having a heated debate with people I respect.

It's really nice to have an open debate with people from all over the world that share some of the same interests but have differing opinions.

But I'm sure this discussion will eventually fizzle out and we will go back to talking about more important things like our Red Sox and or designer jeans.

Gnat the Beggar wrote:Or Boobies.

I am assuming you don't mean a Blue Footed Booby  

Damn, thats twice in this thread I've missed boobies....  

mbassoc2003 wrote:Can you buy BFB statuettes?

You can adopt one through the WWF web site and get a plush booby!

http://www.worldwildlife.org/ogc/species_SKU.cfm?gid=40

jasonw1239 wrote:You can adopt one through the WWF web site and get a plush booby!

http://www.worldwildlife.org/ogc/species_SKU.cfm?gid=40

Crap. I thought that was going to be one of those new buxom wrestling wenches that seem to have appeared on their roster...

am i being thick .. i thought that mister heaney had summed a  lot of the whole point here.

this is not a US problem , the whole thing is just part of the being human. Why do we expect countries do act differently from individuals? Self-interest, jealousy ... this is who we are. Why do we expect countries (which don't exist other than in people) to act differently than us?

the way our national governments act is just a refleciton of how we act (and vote) ourselves. why are we so suprised.

So Heaney compares England f**king Ireland physically .. but it leaves Ireland pregnant. Go figure

I'm sorry. I fail to see how Israel plays a part in the oil equation. And I don't see why Jewish people have a right to their own country (even if it was promised to them by God). Why the hell can't they live on the planet like every other religeon and race? Or is it the 'Hitler tried to kill us, so now we can't trust anyone' thing?

There are plenty of sources of oil all over the globe, and if a bunch of arabs want to fight over a piece of turf in the middle east that the israelis now claim was given to them by God, then who the hell are we to get in on the act? Again, why is it anything to do with the UK or America what or who fights over what piece of land in the middle east. And let's face it, the Israelis have no more claim to that piece of land than say the Egyptians, Syrians, Iraqis, or Italians for that matter. This 'it was promised to us by God' is a heap of bullcrap. That stretch of land has been fought over for millenia, and no one population has any more claim to it than any other. If it weren't for 'western' involvement, there would be stability in the middle east, and 'israel' would be part of some other country.

Yet again, we see the meddling of the US and UK in the matters of other countries, and we do nothing but fuck them up. After we bleed them dry that is.

As for Milf's question (Sorry TheMilford, that one's gonna stick   ), the reason the US are in Afganistan and Iraq is because they are training and expanding their military. How better to develop weaponry and train soldiers to kill locals than to have an actual conflict. That's what Vietnam was all about, and that's what Afganistan is all about. It's keeping people in jobs. People need to manufacture clothing and equipment, people are needed to train the kids to go and do the dirty thing, and more kids are need to replace the dead ones. So it's all good. It keeps the economy ticking over and people earn big bucks out of war. Obviously not the schmucks with the guns, but then if they were intelligent, they'd not be there in the first place. It's a natural selection thing.