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Post Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 9:36 am 
 

One thing I've noticed with their feedback changes: while the total feedback number has often gone up for some sellers, the fact that they now only calculate by one-year periods has resulted in some sellers having their feedback percentage taking a nosedive.

I've seen a few making sudden drops from mid- to high-99% to mid-98%.  Ouch.


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Post Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 10:47 am 
 

Deadlord39 wrote:It got tired of him pigeonholing Acaeum bidders. Karma, ya dang Brit!
Al, I don't think you have much to worry about as far as getting dinged by a buyer. You've always been exemplary.


Yup... Al has always been at the top of the heap as a seller (Buyer too).

The mode of delivery is not (Usually*) a big probem for me as a buyer, more so if the item is damage due to lack of care in packing by the seller.
*Of course, on the other hand I do not enjoy seeing something like an RPG Adventure module shipped in a thin envelope and being bent in half by the postal carrier so that it can be stuffed into the tiny mail box.
In that case, if I thought the seller had packed it in a way that did not comport to safe delivery and the seller would not resond to my questions as to why, then a neg would (IMO) be well justified.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that writting DO NOT BEND on both sides of an envelope is not that big a time consumer and is really worth the small bit of effort expended.


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Post Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 11:35 am 
 

g026r wrote:One thing I've noticed with their feedback changes: while the total feedback number has often gone up for some sellers, the fact that they now only calculate by one-year periods has resulted in some sellers having their feedback percentage taking a nosedive.

I've seen a few making sudden drops from mid- to high-99% to mid-98%.  Ouch.


Mine went from 99.9% to 100% :)

For now :?


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Post Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:03 pm 
 

Aneoth wrote:

Yup... Al has always been at the top of the heap as a seller (Buyer too).

The mode of delivery is not (Usually*) a big probem for me as a buyer, more so if the item is damage due to lack of care in packing by the seller.
*Of course, on the other hand I do not enjoy seeing something like an RPG Adventure module shipped in a thin envelope and being bent in half by the postal carrier so that it can be stuffed into the tiny mail box.
In that case, if I thought the seller had packed it in a way that did not comport to safe delivery and the seller would not resond to my questions as to why, then a neg would (IMO) be well justified.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that writting DO NOT BEND on both sides of an envelope is not that big a time consumer and is really worth the small bit of effort expended.




If only writing do not bend was enough.



If an envelope is used then stiff cardboard needs to be placed inside, stiff enough so that the postalmaniac cannot easily bend  the envelope. The reason why some sellers avoid this is because it can change the class of mail to parcel and jam up the postage cost.



I recently purchased 4 Ambush module knock-off scenarios from someone on ebay. I paid enough for a flat rate box but they sent them in a flaty rate envelope, which of course was promptly bent by the carrier. His homebrew Ambush modules (a WWII solo game) comes with thich cardboard sheets to fit into sleeves. An interesting system for using a paragraph system of solo play. The cards were bent. The seller offered to replace everything, but I managed to flatten everything out. I was not pleased so I didn't leave feedback.



I could have left a neg, or damaged his DSR, but why? It has a much harder impact on a seller than some people seem to realize. The guy tried to work a few extra bucks out of the deal which has already cost him my repeat business (which would be a great deal more in profit than he'd ever make skimping on decent shipping). But he tried sincerely to make it right. I'm not slamming someones feedback or especially their DSR when they apologized and tried to make it right. There but for the grace of God goes Rumpole. But I am sensitive to DSR because I sell a lot on ebay. (I've offered free shipping since before the DSR stuff started and I have a 4.8 in shipping costs. It's freakin' free, how can I get slammed on shipping costs when I don't charge any? Because ebays DSR system sucks and you can't please some people (Alms for an ex-leper).



So now, after 11 years on ebay with 99.9 (because 3 non-paying buyers neged me 11 years ago) I finally have the %100 I'm just waiting to get the next neutral or neg from someone, just because they can. I was thinking this morning that the new system is going to beat the hell out of the feedback percentage system (and it means some big bucks to high end powersellers who get a discount for haveing over a 98). I can't wait to be done and cleaned out, and to be able to use my den for something other than game storage again (I'm planning a game room that the cats can't get into so maybe I can leave a boardfull of counters or little plastic men up without one of the cats stomping through the board like Godzilla through Tokyo.

  

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Post Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:21 pm 
 

wel its funny you should say that jason, cos i had an instance the other day. perfect for what i was saying.

i sent a guy 2 mods. i dont have to, but i packed them in a jiffy, in a plastic sleeve to protect the mods and then two pieces of thick card, to help keep the parcel firm and then write do not bend on both sides. pretty good job, if i have to say so myself. not only that, i sent the package out 2 days after payment (would have been quicker but work didnt permit the time), still pretty quick imo, as he got it the morning after. he left glowing feedback, but marked my DSRs with "average"
so my ratings temp went from 4.9 to 4.8.

is that fair? i didnt think i offered an average service. without blowing my own trumpet, i felt i offered a damn f-ing great service, not only that, i but i e-mailed him and advised of the parcel being sent too!!!!

now thats what i am on about. i feel that i have been hard done to there and there isnt a damn thing i can do.

his reply to me upon questioning it, was "i just left average, i always do". well no shit sherlock...that really helps things. so my DSR goes down for no real reason at all, because some muppet cant grade things properly!

really p's me off for sure. i wonder sometimes, why i bother making the effort to go an extra yard. oh maybe it was the £0.07 i charged for handling, which covers a brand-new jiffy, materials etc.....hmmm yea i guess i overdid it there

:roll:

feckin dumbass

needless to say he is blocked now, cant be arsed with it.

Al


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Post Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:52 pm 
 

You've fallen foul of the main eBay scam Al. eBay knows, because it has been told over and over again by many sellers, the descriptive text beside those stars encourages users to leave 4 stars rather than 5 (or even 3 in the case you mention). 4 stars is considered 'good' with 5 stars reserved for 'excellent'. Most buyers think they are doing you a favour when they leave 4 stars and they probably don't think they are doing much harm even by leaving 3 stars. But eBay knows full well, sellers need as many 5 star ratings as possible to qualify for the sellers' discount. This is why they have deliberately rigged the feedback system. Buyers are mislead and sellers are shafted. The end result is suffering the higher fees all of the time and getting those discounts maybe half the time at best or probably not at all. Perfect if you are on the eBay payroll but pretty tough going if you are trying to make a living as an eBay seller. It's a con, eBay knows it's a con and eBay knows the seller knows it's a con. Just eBay being eBay, greedy as hell and couldn't give a toss about its customers.

I've said all along, eBay should have put a whole lot more effort into helping the user make an informed decision when leaving those star ratings, especially now that money is at stake. But they just rolled the system out, misleading labels and all and expected every buyer to judiciously apply ratings based on actual experience rather than expedience as is quite obviously the case with the buyer you mention. Buyers have zero incentive to use the system properly and attract zero risk if they want to abuse it, just for a laugh or simply because they are lazy. The postage rating is worst of all, you would think eBay could throw up the shipping cost applied so people leaving feedback didn't have to click away and read the item description again. But they left that feature out too. I see this as their go-to rating when they really need to screw a seller on discounts because the perception exists that every seller screws the buyer on shipping. eBay uses this to their advantage. Bottom line, you are dealing with a crooked company and no matter what you do all the power now rests with the buyer and the seller, the guy who actually pays eBay's bills, is the loser. Old ground I know but it's working out just as everyone said.

Console yourself with the fact the buyer is a lazy asshole given an easy out by eBay - but you did the business regardless. I've had plenty of stuff from you, I prefer dealing outside of eBay of course but regardless it has been a 5 star service all the way.

  


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Post Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:53 pm 
 

Same with me Killjoy. When I send a module I use a #4 Jiffy bubble mailer, bag AND board the module, and THEN insert an extra cardboard plate (my buddy runs a comic store and they send him these sturdy cardboard plates that I cut down and use to great success) for stiffness. Did I mention I do all this for $3.50?? I think it's extremely reasonable, and I'd happily pay that amount for any module that I bought and was shipped to me the same way.

What I've taken to doing is writing each person a note when I ship the item, and then ask them to leave me all 5s, and if they cannot, just let me know what I can do to earn the 5s. I missed 15% off my fees last month because of a 4.7 shipping time DSR. :( So, I'm trying this new method. Let's see how it works out.

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Post Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:16 pm 
 

You know what. I don't generally care whether a seller has 2 stars or four stars. If I want an item I'll buy if from them. If their negative feedback says 'this guy wrapped my woodgrain in brown paper and shipped it in a bag of rocks' and there's a stack of other people leaving similar comments, then I might think twice.

On the whole, I don't think eBay buyers really care much about any of the rating systems. They are looking for a bargain. If you've got the one they want, you get the sale. When it gets closer to market value, or up into the collectables, on the whole you're dealing with intelligent people, and they know not to put too much weight behind rating systems and negative feedback. And if they aren't that intelligent, then maybe you don't want to be selling to them anyways.

Don't worry about all that eBay crap. Put up good product with accurate shipping costs. Pack it as if it was gonna be handled by monkeys (it is!), and ship on time. Business will do just fine.


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Post Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:17 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:wel its funny you should say that jason, cos i had an instance the other day. perfect for what i was saying.

i sent a guy 2 mods. i dont have to, but i packed them in a jiffy, in a plastic sleeve to protect the mods and then two pieces of thick card, to help keep the parcel firm and then write do not bend on both sides. pretty good job, if i have to say so myself. not only that, i sent the package out 2 days after payment (would have been quicker but work didnt permit the time), still pretty quick imo, as he got it the morning after. he left glowing feedback, but marked my DSRs with "average"
so my ratings temp went from 4.9 to 4.8.

is that fair? i didnt think i offered an average service. without blowing my own trumpet, i felt i offered a damn f-ing great service, not only that, i but i e-mailed him and advised of the parcel being sent too!!!!

now thats what i am on about. i feel that i have been hard done to there and there isnt a damn thing i can do.

his reply to me upon questioning it, was "i just left average, i always do". well no shit sherlock...that really helps things. so my DSR goes down for no real reason at all, because some muppet cant grade things properly!

really p's me off for sure. i wonder sometimes, why i bother making the effort to go an extra yard. oh maybe it was the £0.07 i charged for handling, which covers a brand-new jiffy, materials etc.....hmmm yea i guess i overdid it there

:roll:

feckin dumbass

needless to say he is blocked now, cant be arsed with it.

Al


Thats the exact thing.

As a seller I would want to screen buyers who only leave average DSRs because an average DSR in ebay terms isn't average it means a seller is going to lose sales, lose discounts offered by ebay and can even be suspended from selling, because buyers think the seller is averrage (3 stars).

The DSR system works this way. 5 stars means that the seller is given a good rating. 4 stars means a bad rating, 3 stars a very bad rating, 2 stars the seller sucks, and 1 star the seller is a complete bastard. But 4 stars says satisfied, so buyers think, okay, I was satisfied but not overyjoyed so the give 4 stars, only to ebay it means the seller isn't doing their job. Satisfaction isn't enough. Well that is ridiculous.

BTW I figure I just lost my 100. Sold a dvd set 4 days ago and the buyer just responded that they can't pay by paypal. can only send cash. I'm pissed because I thought if you only listed paypal as the single payment method they needed to pay by paypal. So I say, I don't recommended cash, send a USPS money order. The guy thanks me and tells me he is sending a check. I think it is about $60 a bounced check at my bank now, so I email him back and tell him absolutely not... I'm just waiting for the neg or neutral now.

  


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Post Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:23 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:You know what. I don't generally care whether a seller has 2 stars or four stars. If I want an item I'll buy if from them. If their negative feedback says 'this guy wrapped my woodgrain in brown paper and shipped it in a bag of rocks' and there's a stack of other people leaving similar comments, then I might think twice.

On the whole, I don't think eBay buyers really care much about any of the rating systems. They are looking for a bargain. If you've got the one they want, you get the sale. When it gets closer to market value, or up into the collectables, on the whole you're dealing with intelligent people, and they know not to put too much weight behind rating systems and negative feedback. And if they aren't that intelligent, then maybe you don't want to be selling to them anyways.

Don't worry about all that eBay crap. Put up good product with accurate shipping costs. Pack it as if it was gonna be handled by monkeys (it is!), and ship on time. Business will do just fine.


Except ebay offers a %15 discount if you have a high DSR. So true that the buyers might not give a toss about stars but some do, so that's sales lost, and then there is the bottomline. Between ebay and paypal the fees really eat into profit from ebay and %15 savings is nothing to sneeze at.

  

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Post Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:31 pm 
 

JZavoda wrote:
Except ebay offers a %15 discount if you have a high DSR. So true that the buyers might not give a toss about stars but some do, so that's sales lost, and then there is the bottomline. Between ebay and paypal the fees really eat into profit from ebay and %15 savings is nothing to sneeze at.


But that's part of Ebay's fake carrott and stick approach, Jason.  Don't pine for the 15% discount because ITS NOT REALISTIC ANYONE IS GOING TO GET IT!!!  When the change came, I wasn't trying to get a discount and changed practically nothing, because I figured if I even got a 5% discount (which I finally got this month) it was a bonus, pure and simple.  

And just to comment on shipping, I refused to offer free shipping since I use priority mail (to get there quicker, and supplies are free), and as a matter of fact RAISED my shipping costs to make up for the USPS higher costs.  So, I raised shipping, and refuse to offer free shipping, what happened?  My DSRs went UP enough the last few months to give me a discount.  8O   Try to figure that out. The campaign to force everyone to use "Free Shipping" only helps Ebay, it does nothing to improve your DSRs, feedback, or bottom line.

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Post Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:23 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
But that's part of Ebay's fake carrott and stick approach, Jason.  Don't pine for the 15% discount because ITS NOT REALISTIC ANYONE IS GOING TO GET IT!!!  When the change came, I wasn't trying to get a discount and changed practically nothing, because I figured if I even got a 5% discount (which I finally got this month) it was a bonus, pure and simple.  

And just to comment on shipping, I refused to offer free shipping since I use priority mail (to get there quicker, and supplies are free), and as a matter of fact RAISED my shipping costs to make up for the USPS higher costs.  So, I raised shipping, and refuse to offer free shipping, what happened?  My DSRs went UP enough the last few months to give me a discount.  8O   Try to figure that out. The campaign to force everyone to use "Free Shipping" only helps Ebay, it does nothing to improve your DSRs, feedback, or bottom line.

Mike B.


I disagree, free shipping has gotten me some regular customers and helped my more humdrum postings get a little notice on the listing pages. It has helped my bottom line, and its saved me from having to try and work out shipping costs, which I hate with a passion.

It is a carrot, the %15, and since I'm a closet cleaner now instead of a reseller I doubt I'll reach the sales to even make the lowest level of power seller. but that doesn't stop me from wanting it, just a tiny, eeny weensy bit anyway, and I like the %100 and good feedback from people. To someone still in the brotherhood it is a different story and I've mentioned elsewhere that a lot of ebay customers never check what the shipping is or figure the shipping cost into what they are actually paying. To me $20 is $20, whether I spend it on something delivered or out of a storefront. So if I pay $10 for a high bid and $10 more for shipping I count that as $20 spent on the item, but talk to a lot of newbie buyers and they think they've only spent $10.

  

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Post Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:42 pm 
 

JZavoda wrote:
I disagree, free shipping has gotten me some regular customers and helped my more humdrum postings get a little notice on the listing pages. It has helped my bottom line, and its saved me from having to try and work out shipping costs, which I hate with a passion.

It is a carrot, the %15, and since I'm a closet cleaner now instead of a reseller I doubt I'll reach the sales to even make the lowest level of power seller. but that doesn't stop me from wanting it, just a tiny, eeny weensy bit anyway, and I like the %100 and good feedback from people. To someone still in the brotherhood it is a different story and I've mentioned elsewhere that a lot of ebay customers never check what the shipping is or figure the shipping cost into what they are actually paying. To me $20 is $20, whether I spend it on something delivered or out of a storefront. So if I pay $10 for a high bid and $10 more for shipping I count that as $20 spent on the item, but talk to a lot of newbie buyers and they think they've only spent $10.


I agree with a lot of this, but as long as your shipping costs are transparent I've found that buyers will be understanding. Since I do practically everything flat rate it's there on the table for anyone to compare. I think most buyers get pissed when there are hidden costs, which I agree is getting harder to do since DSRs came into being because although you made the money upfront as the seller you may get hammered on DSRs by the buyer.  Plus I'm pretty flexible with buyers if they contact me beforehand, and people who deal with me know that and take advantage of the fact I'll lower the fees for multiple item buys.

My theory on Free Shipping is that the only one really benefitting is Ebay. First, many sellers who use Free Shipping simply raise their item fees (Titan games does this and has stated so), which just puts more money in Ebay's pocket.  Second, Ebay has gone to great lengths to push the Free Shipping model as saying it will increase sales, but  when I actually crunched the numbers, the amount of money I would lose paying for shipping vs the amount of extra sales I would have to have to justify the practice.....the gulf was phenomenal. Third as I said I actually saw my DSRs rise during the same period when I both raised shipping fees and didnt' use Free Shipping, which tells me that buyers are mostly concerned that the item arrives quickly, and in a relatively undamaged state, more than they care about perhaps saying a few cents and getting the cheaper shipping, but having it shipped slower and maybe in a brown envelope that gets banged up.

But, it's all anectodal I guess!  If I didn't want to mess with shipping (which I will agree is a beast if you haven't done it day in and day out the last ten years like I've been doing, I'd hate to have to start dealing with it now) the Free Shipping would be a good marketing tool, and if I wasn't selling for a living I would definitely use it.

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Post Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:54 pm 
 

Do what my BMW Service department does when I go to pick up the car:

Advise the buyer to mark all 5 stars. Tell them that anything less than 5 stars is because something was wrong and was a failure on your part.

Don't leave it up to their good nature, educate them. It's part of your excellent customer service.

As a buyer, I've started mentioning in my feedback if I leave all 5 stars as well. It's my new A+++++++ (dear god that's so ridiculous).

  

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Post Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 3:32 pm 
 

JZavoda wrote:
Except ebay offers a %15 discount if you have a high DSR. So true that the buyers might not give a toss about stars but some do, so that's sales lost, and then there is the bottomline. Between ebay and paypal the fees really eat into profit from ebay and %15 savings is nothing to sneeze at.

Fees only eat into profit if they are not factored in in the first instance. Total Cost + Profit Margin = Price.

I know that if you're trying to shift a box of used B2s in a market full of games stores selling used B2s, then your probably onto a loss there, but then that's just a case of trying to sell the wrong product in the wrong market. Regular market economics work here just the same as they do everywhere else.

As for the propensity of certain buyers to be swayed by eBay's insentive schemes, I would suggest these people are just as susceptable to buy life insurance based on television adverts. And again, you have to factor in whether your intended buyer has a low, moderate or high intelligence level.


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Post Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 5:26 pm 
 

its not really about the money, its someone telling me i did an "average "service...thats what has pissed me off the most.


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Post Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 5:33 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Fees only eat into profit if they are not factored in in the first instance. Total Cost + Profit Margin = Price.

I know that if you're trying to shift a box of used B2s in a market full of games stores selling used B2s, then your probably onto a loss there, but then that's just a case of trying to sell the wrong product in the wrong market. Regular market economics work here just the same as they do everywhere else.

As for the propensity of certain buyers to be swayed by eBay's insentive schemes, I would suggest these people are just as susceptable to buy life insurance based on television adverts. And again, you have to factor in whether your intended buyer has a low, moderate or high intelligence level.


Believe me anthing that takes away money you've earned is taking it out of profit.

I know that this doesn't have anything to do with what someone is selling, just how buyers are being told one thing by ebay and ebay is saying something else to the sellers.

  

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Post Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 8:52 pm 
 

There is something here that really saddens me.
I was reading through the new posts on this thread, and I suddenly realized how much this hobby now focuses on eBay. It's sad to see that trading/selling/buying revolves around a single entity. No, I'm not suggesting the old rec.games.frp should be resurrected as "THE" venue, but I think a lot of enjoyment is being lost due to eGay's rampant greed, and the need (for some) to get maximum prices for items. Terms like "profit" and "shipping expenses".............
As soon as I get unpacked, I'll sell off a good chunk of my stuff. If it goes for a good price, great, if not, great. I will definitely try the new selling site first. But all told, I am just happy to have been a collector and to have owned some pretty rare items.
Sit back and think about it. Since eBay's idiotic policies seems to be keeping some people up at night, those individuals might want to ask themselves why exactly they are in this hobby.


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