stratochamp wrote in UK Basic Set Mystery & Theory:that was an Acaeum typo

I'm afraid I'll have to insist that GW first took a photo of their own UK box alongside the unique pre-production mockup of B1 used by TSR photographers in the US, then later replaced the photo of their own product with a US box, all the while continuing to use the same US mockup of B1. Why? I like to think of myself as being like the man standing in front of a column of tanks at Tiananmen Square, representing the forces of pointlessness against the obvious. It's what the internet's for.

Zenopus wrote in UK Basic Set Mystery & Theory:I've been following this thread but haven't had a chance to comment. I'll just drop a few comments here.



I know this was just a small piece of your consideration, but Games Workshop definitely sold the Holmes rulebook separately from the box set.

Here is the earliest ad for it that I found, in White Dwarf #5 (Feb/Mar 1978) (also posted here on my blog):

[ Image ]

From this ad we can't tell if these separately sold rulebooks are US/TSR or UK/GW printings. But the UK/GW rulebook was already available at this point, per a photo in the same issue of WD that is from Games Day III in Dec 1977 which shows Don Turnbull and others with the newly printed UK/GW rulebook:

[ Image ]

After this, the GW ads continued to list the Basic Set and also rulebook alone for sale. For example, WD #8 (Aug/Sep 78) and WD #11 (Feb/Mar 79) has them both listed for the same prices as above. Even if they were selling the TSR/US rulebook separately as of WD #5, it is highly likely at some point they started selling the UK/GW rulebook by itself. Particularly because it was printed without a corresponding box to go along with it.

This is exactly the kind of post I was hoping to see from Acaeum members.  Zeno you rock!

So again if I may speculate a bit.  Zeno points to the F116-R GW manual being available in the Feb/March 1978 time frame.  This fits in exactly with the theory that the UK had the contents available in early 1978 but not the Black side box.  I have seen several articles quoting that sales of basic sets reached 4000 per month in 1979.  Let's assume that in 1978, they were at half that, or 2000 sets per month.  TSR/GW has the UK manual and B1 module ready but no box.  It would not be out of the realm of possibility that TSR wanted to capitalized on the surging set sales seen in USA, by getting some kind of set to market in the UK.  So I propose two theories:

1. The bridge set was an attempt to test the UK set market BEFORE committing to a unique UK Box(The Black Side).  TSR cobbled together the leftover 2nd print boxes(3rd print cam out in spring 1978(may)), stuck in the new GW manual and module, and tested the market.  The test was a success and then then ordered the UK Black Side box to be made.
2. The was an issue in the manufacturing of the UK Black Side box that delayed it until fall of 1978(november).  Thus to fill the gap and not lose 100's of set sales in the UK, TSR cobbled together the old 2nd print boxes and made a set using GW manual and module as a stop gap while the black side box was being corrected or spun up.

If I had to place money on either theory, I would bet on #1.  It would seem too long a delay for something as simple as a box.  Also to invest in the design/manufacturering of a unique UK box, TSR would want some evidence that it would sell in set form in the UK.  Using leftover 2nd print boxes would allow that test.  And clearly TSR has a history of reusing leftover parts of sets to create more sets, so this wouldnt seem to be out of character in any way.  In fact, using the left over 2nd print boxes to test the UK set market before investing in a unique UK box would seem to be sound business sense.

So while Zeno's fine detective work shows that it would have been possible to buy the UK f116-R manual & GW B1 module separately and then stick it in a 2nd print box(where the usa f116-r manual went is the big question here if they had a 2nd print box), it also shows that the UK manual was available before the Black Side Box.  This is/was a key to the bridge set existence.  If the GW manual was not available until the Black Side box, the need/possibility of a bridge set is almost nil.

While it does not definitively answer the IF the set existed, it lends more credence to the WHY the set might have existed.

This one has a receipt with it.


** expired/removed eBay auction **

ashmire13 wrote in UK Basic Set Mystery & Theory:Even if it was put together solely by GW, would that not make it a different edition, seeing as it’s actually built and sold by a gaming business not Joe Public Frankenstein-ing a box set together as a one off?, but seemingly this is a deliberate box set put together

Could a Holmes-era boxed set have assembled itself randomly? It's sort of like imagining that all the pieces of a watch might come together by random chance, without a watchmaker. Ridiculous sounding, isn't it? Yet there are some who would argue just that, believing the rules of D&D must have been typed out & playtested by monkeys. Hey, don't get me wrong, sometimes I wonder how it's all supposed to work, I've been there. But there's something I want you to know. Dungeons & Dragons didn't just pop into existence for no reason, it was created. It was made lovingly with intelligence & with wisdom by game designers who care about you, whoever you might be.

ashmire13 wrote in UK Basic Set Mystery & Theory:So that one above was listed as a 1980 set, but was sold on 31st October 1979 from a store in Leicester. From memory the HQ of GW was Nottingham and Citadel miniatures initially produced their minis from Nottinghamshire too, both of which aren’t far from Leicester, maybe 30 miles apart?

I think GW was still based in London at this point, I don’t think it moved to Nottingham until the mid-eighties but I could be wrong. (I seem to recall it was the success of Warhammer, which was launched in 1983, that led to the move to Nottingham to be closer to Citadel Miniatures in Newark.) The B1 has the Dalling Road address.

I don't know, but haven't UK business addresses and business tenancies always been a matter of public record, and therefor should be archived somewhere. Of course it's probably all paper archives or microfiche, so hinting that sort of info really is only for the dedicated biographer.

Sardan wrote in UK Basic Set Mystery & Theory:
A company’s registered office is public record but the registered office isn’t always the main place of business or headquarters, particularly for smaller companies. It is often the address of the law firm or accountancy practice that set up the company or does its company returns.

I’m sure the information is out there of when GW moved to Nottingham but I haven’t really looked very hard for it.

This would be true these-days. But back then (in a simpler time) there's probably good odds it was registered to actual address.

shadeun wrote in UK Basic Set Mystery & Theory:
This would be true these-days. But back then (in a simpler time) there's probably good odds it was registered to actual address.

I did some digging on Companies House. It’s not easy as most of the old documents are not digitised.

The oldest GW company I can find was set up in 1979 (a few years later than I expected, I wonder how they operated before that or am I missing a company) and it’s registered office was the company formation agents.

It moved its registered office to Basingstoke before 1986. That address in Basingstoke is now a solicitors office and may well have been one in 1986 but I am cannot find anything definitive.

By 1989, and presumably from 1986 it registered office was Eastwood in Nottinghamshire, same as citadel miniatures, so I would guess the move to Nottingham was around 1986.

ashmire13 wrote in UK Basic Set Mystery & Theory:Wow, I live in Basingstoke and never knew it’s registered office was here. We do have a shop though that’s been here for years

That's what I was trying to tell you earlier! You just tap your ruby slippers & say "There's no place like home..."