Holmes Basic was my first version of D&D, but I quickly moved into AD&D. Then Moldvay came out and whenever we played basic, we played that because it was the most current version of the basic game. I just don't get the Holmes love. Maybe I'm just weird that way.

I may be a freak but AC -5 rocks

My suggestion for 5th Edition D&D would be to purchase a game like the Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG from Goodman Games and issue it as a new edition of D&D.

FormCritic wrote:My suggestion for 5th Edition D&D would be to purchase a game like the Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG from Goodman Games and issue it as a new edition of D&D.

That's absolutely brilliant!

I can think of a million ways why it is a bad idea, but they are same reasons that releasing 5E is a bad idea.  Why not make 5E a clean break from 4E?

Goodman has already done much of the heavy lifting by developing and playtesting a new RPG system.  Why can't Hasbro be like Microsoft/Oracle/Google and purchase or license the DCC RPG?

Pathfinder has a very dedicated following, it is my group's choice of system currently  

We also play gamma world 1st, LOTR (using rolemaster), 1st ed and a few war games.

Remember Paizo sells a significant portion of their stuff directly through their website. Take that into account and I am sure they are the running away the bestselling RPG out there.

I do think it is ironic that WOTC did all this to themselves!  

Step #1: Reinvent RPG's with the open gaming licence starting a revolution where either you were on board with D20 or you suffered in obscurity

Step #2: Contract out the Dungeon and Dragon magazines out to Paizo, handing them over your list of very dedicated and loyal gamers.

Step #3:  Cancelling the Paizo contract and starting the ridiculous Gleemax debacle and marginalizing your dedicated gamers (people like me who would never embrace something like Gleemax)

Step#4:  Cancelling 3.5 ed and putting out the clunky, boring 4th edition while coming up with a new open gaming licence that marginalizes the loyal publishers that embraced the last OGL leading to the emergence of new RPG's like Pathfiinder (carrying on with 3.5 type rules with the customer base supplied to them by WOTC) Savage Worlds, Deathwatch, etc.

Step#5: Further fractionalizing your own market with the release of D&D essentials.

Step#6: Cancel it all with a 5th edition (and hope it changes everything again)

The way I see it there is no win for WOTC, I do not believe that anybody wants another edition so soon.  The only hope is that the design team comes up with some revolutionary system that will save the day.  This is possible, Monte Cook is on the team and he is a brilliant and creative game designer.

The other way to win would be to buy up Paizo and just hop on their very successful bandwagon (I do not think that the powers that be at WOTC are that smart though)

WOTC has shown very little understanding of their own market.

An attempt to render 5th Edition as an animatronic owlbear that can talk and dance is not out of the question.

Agent Cooper wrote:One of the big game stores in my area posts stats on what is selling. Here are their top 10 RPG sellers for 2010:

1 Pathfinder RPG Core Rules
2 D&D 4 Player's Handbook 3

4th seems to be doing okay

Do they post numbers along with the rankings?  If they sell 100 copies of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook and only 7 copies of the D&D 4th Edition Player's Handbook, then 4th Edition isnt really doing all that well.  

Blackmoor wrote:The way I see it there is no win for WOTC, I do not believe that anybody wants another edition so soon.

I agree completely.  I believe that putting out a new edition so soon would piss off just about everyone that put their money into 4th edition.  And odds are anyyone playing Pathfinder would have little interest.

Agent Cooper wrote:but if there's a way to get both the younger set AND the grognards excited about the same system WOTC could hit a real home run.

But how do you get a 14 year old kid interested in the same thing his 45 year old dad is?  There dont seem to be a whole lot of ways to do this and it be successful.  I think that technology is going to be at the forefront of any successful venture for WotC.  Most people have smartphones, tablet PC's, gaming consoles and computers nowadays.  Make it possible for all of them to connect to the same shared reality and interact within it.  Create something akin to World of Warcraft, Elder Scrolls, Dragon Age etc. but make it even more detailed and immersive.  True virtual reality is still a ways off but 3D technology is making a huge leap into home entertainment and could be utilized.  A lot of software companies are dropping the box and disk format and making it simpler by allowing people to download their product directly.  This would save them tons of money to invest in hardware and development.

But what can you give people to make them want to play something other than World of Warcraft?  First off, make it D&D.  Allow players to adventure in any world they want.  Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, etc.  Second, let them use any ruleset they want from OD&D to 4th Edition.  And let them change the rules to suit their needs.  Third, give them the ability to create their own worlds and adventures.  This is one of the great things about Neverwinter Nights.  You could either create your own adventure or plug in someone else's.  Some of them were crap but others were pretty darn good.  And one thing I noticed a lot of were people creating versions of the old 1st Edition modules.  Playing Dragon Age is fun but I would rather play in an online version of The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun or The Steading of the Hill Giant Chief.  Fourth thing is to keep the DM in the game.  You dont want it to be just another MMO or First Person Shooter style game.  The DM can create his own sandbox style adventure or campaign, tailor it the way he likes, and only allow those players he wants into it.  That way you keep out the undesirables like player killers and douchebags that want nothing more than to piss people off out of the mix.  And when you arent in the "game world" the DM can host a virtual meetup just to talk about stuff, award experience points, create characters, etc.

So how does WotC make money from this?  Selling online content.  Sure, you can buy the basic game and play right off the bat, but if you want to build your own dungeon or city....you gotta buy the toolset or tiles to do so.  You get to start out in the free default game world....say Faerun, but if you want to play in Eberron or Greyhawk you have to pay a one time fee.  That lets you access the world but if you want to enter the Rift of the Frost Giant Jarl you have to pay a fee.  Want to adventure in the outer planes, gotta pay.  Maybe you start out with the ability to play a warrior, priest, mage, or rogue.  Want to be a ranger, paladin, necromancer, or druid?  Gotta pay to download the new archetypes.  If 100K people want to add a tiefling dragonblooded blackguard to their roster, WotC could charge a buck per user and make 100 thousand dollars.  You dont have to pay $40 for a hardback book or $20 a month for an online magazine subscription.  No need to pay $10 for dice and additional funds for a battlemat, miniatures, pencils, graph paper, etc.  And before you say, "no way people are going to pay for all that", think about how much money people already pay for all the books that are produced.  Online content would cost much less and people could potentially get much more out of it.

Call me crazy....but I think this is where RPG's are headed at some point.  No more books (and eventually no more pdf's), no more box sets, no more dice, and no more Cheeto and Dr. Pepper stains on your modules.  It would have to be done the right way though.  Just another MMO isnt going to work.  It has to be big and it has to cater to pretty much everyone.  Which makes me believe that there is no way Hasbro/WotC could pull it off.  Someone with some serious cashflow, imagination, and initiative will have to do it for it to work.

Kingofpain89 wrote:Call me crazy....but I think this is where RPG's are headed at some point.  No more books (and eventually no more pdf's), no more box sets, no more dice, and no more Cheeto and Dr. Pepper stains on your modules.  It would have to be done the right way though.  Just another MMO isnt going to work.  It has to be big and it has to cater to pretty much everyone.  Which makes me believe that there is no way Hasbro/WotC could pull it off.  Someone with some serious cashflow, imagination, and initiative will have to do it for it to work.

It's called cloud computing.

All ur data belong to us.

http://computer.howstuffworks.com/googl ... mputer.htm

Kingofpain89 wrote:But how do you get a 14 year old kid interested in the same thing his 45 year old dad is?

To some extent, they don't have to interest the 14-year-old, just the older relative who buys gifts. Look in a toystore at all the obsolete stuff: railroads, slotcars, lincoln logs. The gift-buyers are stimulated by their own nostalgia, hence the current red box with retro art.