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D&D version 4.0--what do YOU think it's going to be like
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Gnat the Beggar
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:06 am

Zenfinite wrote:
Dragonborn are kinda like lizard men, but with more dragon than lizard (or man for that matter). They get to breathe acid, cold, or fire once an encounter. It's really only good for wiping out minions, and letting themselves get hung out to dry hehe.

Eladrin are basically really elvish elves. It doesn't make sense until you read up on "normal" elves. The standard elf seems to be more of a woodland wild elf type, while the Eladrin are the more high-and-mighty holier-than-thou elves. They split the elf archetype into two separate beings, essentially.

Tieflings are easy, humans with a touch of devil in them. Think Constantine, the movie, sort of like that. Not necessarily evil, but, just a hint of devil.

Warlocks are the sorceror port over from 3.5, while wizards are normal wizards. They basically area control combat. Warlords are sort of combat tacticians, kind of a fighter/bard oddity. They can do things like inspire comrades to extra attacks...............

Zenfinite

Thanks Zen. :!:

Very much to the point, and easily understood (Even by me).
Reading your answers took much less time than it would have to search google or to wade through 50,000 hits on a search engine.
For each question............

BTW: the Eladrin sounds like a Gold Elf to me......
"...high-and-mighty holier-than-thou elves..."
IIRC: Golden Elves considered themselves the royalty of Elves, just ask any of them you meet.

OH! and Thanks once again to those who suggeted I google this, or search through dozens of web sites forums with hundreds of discussion threads.
Great ideas guys and so helpful too..... :lol:

Next time I have a month off, I will try to get right on that. :wink:

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Badmike
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:00 am

Agent Cooper wrote:
BADMIKE: You mentioned how you wish somebody would license 1e out. Actually they did, to Kenzer and Company, who made Hackmaster. I've never played it and I don't know much about it. It seems to be basically 1e rules repackaged under a new name with kind of a humorous slant to it.

It would be nice to see some 1e stuff come out again. I think it would sell better than people think. Didn't Goodman Games put out some new mods in 1e not too long ago?

Coop, I knew that, I have a lot of the Hackmaster stuff. Unfortunately the decison was made to go with a semi-parody style, which wore thin after awhile (let's have funny names for the duergar, yuk yuk yuk), and very litle original material was ever published (maybe two of the modules weren't redux of classic 1E adventures). Then Kenzer basically had to drop the liscence due to excessive interference from WOTC in how the liscense could be used, and how long it took them to approve products.

I'm talking about doing it up straight, without the goofball humor, and with original material. But I doubt if WOTC/Hasbro will ever let go of it for any purpose.

Mike B.

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Agent Cooper
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:01 pm

Okay, so, Kenzer doesn't own 1e? I thought they bought it from Wizards?
Who really owns it now? Why don't they let it out under an open gaming license?

Does 4th Ed operate under an OGL?

copycat
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:14 pm

Okay, so, Kenzer doesn't own 1e? I thought they bought it from Wizards?

No, Kenzer never "owned" 1e. They had a deal to produce material but had to follow certain, specific, guidelines - a license does not mean ownership. It means "you can do this, if we say you can." I believe they got this deal due to the Dragon Archive fiasco, but I am unsure.

Who really owns it now?

Hasbro, through Wizards of the Coast.

Why don't they let it out under an open gaming license?

They don't want to.

Does 4th Ed operate under an OGL?

Sort of, but its called GSL and is very restrictive from what people are saying.

Those who can, don't. Those who should not, do.

Xaxaxe
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:24 pm

I got to use the word "disingenuous" in this post, which is just an outstanding word.

Last edited by Xaxaxe on Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

deimos3428
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:30 pm

Actually, the people that have read the books and/or played the game should stop posting. This is the "What do YOU think 4E will be like" thread, not the "Hey I've played it and it's soooo great, here's why" thread.

Last edited by deimos3428 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Xaxaxe
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:30 pm

Originally in this spot was a comment on the poor 4e indexes. It was passably funny, but I could have done better.

Last edited by Xaxaxe on Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Xaxaxe
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:48 pm

Well, this post clearly wasn't worth it ...

Last edited by Xaxaxe on Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:58 pm

serleran wrote:
No, Kenzer never "owned" 1e. They had a deal to produce material but had to follow certain, specific, guidelines - a license does not mean ownership. It means "you can do this, if we say you can." I believe they got this deal due to the Dragon Archive fiasco, but I am unsure.

This is correct, all because the KotDT was in those magazines.
Course WotC figured out that they just had to delay the Kenzer products by looking them over when they got around to it and Kenzer eventually just gave up.

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Zenfinite
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:02 pm

Agent Cooper wrote:
If 4e has no Grapple rules, that alone could be a deal maker.

It's now called Grab. The entire rules section for grab takes up almost half a page, so, it's immensely easier and less rules convoluted. I agree, grappling in 3.x sucked mightily lol.

Seriously, anybody who has a problem with 4E could always, say, oh I dunno, not read this thread? There's really no reason to take pot shots at people or anything of the kind. As long as you're not doing anything shady like making new User IDs or pretending to be somebody you're not, what's the use of being a jerk?

Aneoth, glad to be a help. Honestly, sometimes it's better to hear what's going on from a person, like myself, who speaks in an easier to understand, relatable manner, than from a Wiki page. I understand 100% and am more than willing to help.

Zen

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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:19 pm

More index humor at 4e's expense.

I'm still unsure how this sort of thing made me a WotC shill, but, then again, I'm sort of a dumbass.

Last edited by Xaxaxe on Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

Blackmoor
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:27 pm

Xaxaxe wrote:Seriously ... see what I mean? An improved index â€” or, better yet â€” an actual glossary would have been a nice touch. This was a bad fumble by WotC.

Don't worry; I'm leaving now. I wouldn't want to, you know, actually mention 4e on a thread that is labeled "4e." That would clearly be inappropriate.

I tried 4th ed and our group is going to try and finish a module ( the first one). I will make judgement after that.

I always like to try something before I pass judgement on it :wink:

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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:34 pm

Zen-
Just out of curiosity, is that "Grab" an opposed check type thing? How does it work?

You know, it's funny but I can't remember how we used to do grapple back when I was playing Basic and 1e. I'm going to have to go break out my old books now and see if there were specific rules for it. I don't think we wrestled people much back then, the closest thing I remember doing is having fist fights in taverns and such. That was just "Unarmed Combat" I think.

As I dimly recall, I think if you actually tried to wrestle somebody down, we just basically used a strength check. Really, though if your STR was 10 and your enemy's was 17, you lost by default. Period.

Zenfinite
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:54 pm

Agent Cooper wrote:Zen-
Just out of curiosity, is that "Grab" an opposed check type thing? How does it work?

Grab is a standard action, you hit their Reflex AC with a Str based attack. If you succeed, they are immobile. To escape your grab, on their turn, they make an Acrobatics check vs your Reflex AC or an Athletics check vs your Fort AC. Pretty straightforward as far as I can see.

Zen

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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:44 pm

deimos3428 wrote:Actually, the people that have read the books and/or played the game should stop posting. This is the "What do YOU think 4E will be like" thread

Then you shouldn't be posting here either, since it implies persons who are able to think.

Xaxaxe
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:15 pm

Wow.

My reaction might have been snarky, but I'm not sure what the hell you were thinking when you posted that nonsense. What are you, like, 12?

I might disagree with him on this one, but Deimos is clearly one of the most valued and respected members here. He's earned the right not to have to read such babble.

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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:30 pm

Xaxaxe wrote: He's earned the right not to have to read such babble.

I didn't realize he could read.

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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:57 pm

Keep digging that hole, brother ...

Man, it would be great if we added the plonking feature here.

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