JasonZavoda wrote:
How about the 300... I mean the 50... or those lucky bastards.

I have often referred to those receiving prints as the "nifty fifty," and if anyone wants to call the group receiving prints by that name, it works for me.  If it helps clarify what we're about, then I do not mind changing the terminology.  If we do another, similar project, it might be for the sexy sixty!

Seriously, it is a good time to remind everyone that the decision making is done by the EO Committee, but the EO Committee has chosen to be as transparent as is practical.  We welcome feedback and observations and we hope they are constructive. We may embrace, reject or ignore any suggestion or feedback, but we will listen. We may not answer every question to everyone's satisfaction.  We also realize we won't please everyone and won't try to either.  And, from time to time, members of the committee will say things that need retracting or changing.  Most importantly, we are going to get this done, and I think our efforts will prove most worthwhile.

megnelwil wrote:
Hi Mike, apart from a couple of points, that seems to be an accurate commentary on the facts as I understand them. However, your use of the term, "community", and the way you relate it directly to the Acaeum still confuses me.

I have a feeling I could never define it in a way that would suit you, so I won't attempt it....it's like good art....you just know it when you see it. Suffice to say, "I say tomatoe, you say tomahtoe", and let's leave it at that.

Most certainly a subset of the Acaeum community has been invited to participate in this project. Would you agree, therefore, a clear distinction between this subset of Acaeum members and the wider Acaeum "Community" ought to be acknowledged rather than the former continue to be applied as the latter despite the indisputable and fundamental difference? Is there a suitable term that could be applied to this subset of members so confusion over the idea of what the Acaeum community refers to might be resolved?

How about, in this case, the "Quick and Lucky" and the "Not so Quick and Not So Lucky?"  Sorry, tongue in cheek, but once again I feel I really couldn't come up with a serious answer that would satisfy you....nor do I feel it is needed.

I believe Ben's original suggestion when this thread was created was very much focused on the community and no ambiguity existed. But I'm sure nobody is under any real illusions as to the transformation in the nature of this project that has been detailed in subsequent contributions and agreed to by the subset of members.

I don't recall anything changing significantly in the last two months or so.

I'm not angling for a copy of the print, starting an artwork collection would surely finish me off financially .

Ok.

Actually there was one other point, "the majority of the individuals getting the prints are Acaeum members". Clarification might be useful here as any recipients other than the artist himself and Acaeum members would seem unreasonable given there is a waiting list and in light of the points you have detailed.

I did mean EO when I stated this....so I suppose I should have said "All the individuals getting prints except for EO are Acaeum members".  Corrected. And at that, he's getting the original anyway, but I didn't want to split hairs.

I don't like to reply to pure hypotheticals, or conjectures about what what "Is" is (old President Clinton joke, still always cracks me up).  I did feel your inquiry deserved a little more than just a cursory response, Megnelwil.   I just get the feeling this isn't a serious inquiry into the EO project but some sort of fishing expedition.     The definition of "Acaeum Community" really has little to do with the project, it's a sidebar at best, and the committee has already pledged to ignore attempted roadblocks if we are to complete our goal.  

Seriously, it is a good time to remind everyone that the decision making is done by the EO Committee, but the EO Committee has chosen to be as transparent as is practical. We welcome feedback and observations and we hope they are constructive. We may embrace, reject or ignore any suggestion or feedback, but we will listen. We may not answer every question to everyone's satisfaction. We also realize we won't please everyone and won't try to either. And, from time to time, members of the committee will say things that need retracting or changing. Most importantly, we are going to get this done, and I think our efforts will prove most worthwhile.

Nuff said!

Mike B.

TheMilford wrote:Just a thought... would it be completely out-of-line to suggest the total amount be expanded to say 60 or 75?

I realize it's possible that it will depreciate the individual value of a print but 75 is still a low number for this kind of signed/numbered/authenticated print...And if they are being offset printed it really shouldn't raise the cost that much either.

Hell, even a 100 would be a nice limited number... I just really would like one of these and am feeling a little bummed I wasn't paying close enough attention to this development... I'm sure it would make more of us in this "community" all the more excited.

This was discussed quite a few times with the committee. Without getting into too much depth, every time you raise the number you raise the potential complications by a factor, in many areas (and remember this is our first EVER swim in this sort of pool, for all of us).  Every piece mailed is one that might not arrive, or arrive damaged.  And that's just one aspect. I could go on and on but perhaps another committee member can explain it better.  Suffice to say that if we keep moving the goalposts, it will eventually have a dilutionatory effect on the entire project, and we wanted to avoid that....

Mike B.

There's a high likelihood that not everybody will be enamored with the art. Some people will not have the $$$. I'm sure that most people who signed up on the waiting list early on will get a print.

There are 1332 registered members of this site, so that is the number you should print.  

megnelwil wrote:And Malc, if "community" members who have the nerve to hold an opposing view are to be automatically reduced to troll status then I will accept your badge and wear it without complaint.

would not worry about malc as has poor netiquette skillz not to know calling ppl trolls is asking for flames

Badmike wrote:Suffice to say that if we keep moving the goalposts, it will eventually have a dilutionatory effect on the entire project, and we wanted to avoid that....

moving goalposts once + once only would probably not have killed project dead as in this case was not obvious project was actually go instead of a question of possible idea until later. march 5-6 was easy to miss so yes quick + lucky + then some

As someone who is not currently involved in this directly, if I was, I'd have one point of contention.

People on the list who have just joined the forum only under the guise of simply getting in on the list.  I mean this is supposed to be a "community project" for this community and if I was on the waiting list or missed out on it at the expense of someone who just joined the forum and is completely unknown to community as it stands, getting one ahead of me, would *bother* me, since they really aren't part of the community at all.  

That doesn't mean that you have to have thousands of posts and more than x amount of years on the forum, but like there are people on the list with like 3 or 4 posts or less and they are getting in ahead of others who are far more a part of this "community".

It doesn't appear that there are currently that many in that situation right now, and I am not sure how you would quantify it, but the point remains the same.

TheMilford wrote:Geesh!

Goalposts?

Printing another 25 in attempts to bring the waiting list folk into the fold would do NOTHING to hurt this endeavor... and it is silly to suggest.

Except that, then why can't be print ANOTHER 25 for the guys who didn't get the first extra 25, and then ANOTHER 20 for the guys left out then, and then why can't everyone have 2 copies since we are printing another 50+ anyway, heck why not let everyone have three copies since since it's only 100 more from there...you get the picture. Exaggerated, to be sure, but only slightly.

Not to pull back the curtain too much, but for everyone posting we should up the total printed, we hear from someone (or get a PM) telling us to stay firm on the 50. There has even been much discussion in the committee about this.  Believe me there is NO consensus in any way, shape or form on this issue....

There will always be someone unhappy and left out, unless we print, say, 300 copies.  And that's an expense that none of the committee members are willing to shoulder.  As someone that will be (probably) charged with shipping all of these, I am not anxious to add to the number of prints because of purely selfish reasons.  The more added the more I will have to ship, and the more chance something gets lost or damaged, and unlike my hard ass online persona I'm very sensitive...stuff like that really gets me upset, especially when there might be NO replacements.  

We went into this knowing it would be IMPOSSIBLE to please everyone...it's the nature of the beast.  I know I was flip with some of my answers to you Megnelwil but honestly there are some cases where there are no right or wrong answers, or explaining would take far too much effort with little resolution since opinions are held very strongly for some of us.

(Heck, get 50 of us together in a room and I GUARANTEE you wouldn't have 3 that would play a game of 1E AD&D the same way, it's obvious that a project of this sort will never be fully accepted in all aspects by everyone involved)

As Tharizdun said this project still has a long way to go and I predict a few drop outs due to the reasons he noted.  So being on the wait list is not a death knell to your ambitions of owning a print.

Honestly if I hadn't logged in for a week and saw the project was already full, I would be pretty bummed out also back in March.  But I HOPE I would be supportive and it would only make me more determined to keep involved so as not to be left out next time.  

The committee members have long ago decided not to get into detailed, point by point responses, as it rarely answers the REAL questions and just leads to further points that are brought up.  I'm a firm believer in negative and positive energy, so are the other committee members, as every aspect of this has challenged us in different ways (maybe we should have a detailed, 4-5 page post afterwards so everyone can known the minutia we have had to deal with in our quest...) but we have remained positive we will get this done.  We are a step closer with the acceptance of EO and hopefully in June we will get even one step closer as he actually begins to work on the piece.

Mike B.