Gnat the Beggar wrote:

As for Wotco getting one snuck by them on e-Bay?
Do you REALLY think it was Wotco who reported to e-Bay and demanded that my listing be removed?
REALLY?
Seriously?    

WOTC still doesn't have a clue.  They've never moved that fast on anything in their existence. I'm still fairly certain they'll never even comment on this issue in any way.

It's very easy to report something on ebay, especially considering the language that was used by the seller of the item to describe the item.  A BIN copy will fly through there one of these days without anyone at Ebay noticing or caring.

Mike B.

Badmike wrote:
That's an old disproven argument.

Fair enough. I missed the debate.

We had some on these boards screaming bloody murder when WOTC released PDFs of the original White Box way back when, saying these would "devalue" their original. #1, it didn't happen, #2, who the fuck cares, seriously.

Certainly not me.

John, Donovan:  I missed your comments earlier.

Gnat the Beggar wrote:Last thing was death by Aliens,
Aliens: Allan Grohe
Marines, etc. the rest of us suckers...
First time I ever played.
There were at least two things I learned:
ONE: The Queen is REALLY hard to kill
TWO: This game really aint geared for the Marines to win, or even to survive for that matter

Well summarized, John!  Do you mind if I repost your pics to my Facebook account?  I don't have any shots from the Sunday night game.

Chainsaw wrote:Great Aliens board and figs, grodog. I hope you bring it again next year.

If I drive again, I'm happy to bring it.  We'll have to see how much space it takes up relative to the books next time around, though, if I'm flying and Jon's driving.  Unfortunately, it's probably too big to haul to GaryCon too....

Doug - Sorry if this has been listed elsewhere, but I want to determine the print run of some of the digest books.  I know you said in the NTRPG Con forum that the limit on any LE digest book would be 100.  And I believe you stated that Dennis Sustare's "Tourist Traps" had a print run of 50, with permission to print another 25.

For "Onto the Devil's Skillet" (Tim Kask), "Snakeriders of the Aradondo" (Tim Kask), and the "The Dark Abbot of KOS" (Steve Winter), were 100 copies printed?  Thanks!

lucyjoyce wrote:Doug - Sorry if this has been listed elsewhere, but I want to determine the print run of some of the digest books.  I know you said in the NTRPG Con forum that the limit on any LE digest book would be 100.  And I believe you stated that Dennis Sustare's "Tourist Traps" had a print run of 50, with permission to print another 25.

For "Onto the Devil's Skillet" (Tim Kask), "Snakeriders of the Aradondo" (Tim Kask), and the "The Dark Abbot of KOS" (Steve Winter), were 100 copies printed?  Thanks!

Joan,

I don't know if it's all been printed in one place or not, but I'll print it here with some clarification:

2010 - NTRPGCon printed the following:

PotVQ - 100 copies - 1 printing - sold about 25~35 at the Con, took about 6 months to sell the rest after the Con

High in Hellgate Mountains - 75 copies - 1 printing - sold about 25~35 at the Con, still have about 6 left

Temple of the Weaver Queen - 75 copies - 1 printing - sold about 25~35 at the Con, sold last one at the 2011 Con

Ursigned, Sealed & Delivered - 50 copies - 1 printing - sold about 15~20 at the Con, took about 11 months to sell the rest


2011 - NTRPGCon printed the following:

Dwarven Glory - 100 copies - 2 printings - sold all 50 we took to the Con, plus 6 more as 1st printing. Sold remaining 44 after the Con in one day.

OnTo the Devil's Skillet - 75 copies - 2 printings - pre-sold 25 before the Con, sold about 12 more at the Con, sold remainder of 1st printing day after the Con. Still have some of the 25 2nd printings available for sale for up to 30 days after the Con. Will only print up to 75 total copies. So if they don't all sell in 30 days, print run could be smaller.

Snakeriders of the Arandondo - 75 copies - 2 printings - pre-sold 25 before the Con, sold about 12 more at the Con, sold remainder of 1st printing day after the Con. Still have some of the 25 2nd printings available for sale for up to 30 days after the Con. Will only print up to 75 total copies. So if they don't all sell in 30 days, print run could be smaller.

Tourist Traps - 75 copies - 2 printings - pre-sold 25 before the Con, sold about 12 more at the Con, sold remainder of 1st printing day after the Con. Still have some of the 25 2nd printings available for sale for up to 30 days after the Con. Will only print up to 75 total copies. So if they don't all sell in 30 days, print run could be smaller.

Dark Abbot of KOS/Wasp Men - 75 copies - 2 printings - pre-sold 25 before the Con, sold about 12 more at the Con, sold remainder of 1st printing day after the Con. Still have some of the 25 2nd printings available for sale for up to 30 days after the Con. Will only print up to 75 total copies. So if they don't all sell in 30 days, print run could be smaller.


So the final print numbers for 2011 won't be known for a couple more weeks. Also, in reality, when I get a print run in, sometimes there is exactly what I ordered, some times there is 1 or 2 more in the box (once there were 6 extra). I don't take those into account, so there could be an extra here or there ie: 4 extra DG, 3 extra PotVQ etc etc.

I had to determine my print runs based on last year's sales, since it took so long to unload the left over copies, I opted to print a smaller print run this year and only order more if there was demand within 30 days. I also wanted the copies purchased at the Con to be a little different (at least for the DGs).

In 2012 I may just go back to a single print run of all 100 or 75 per booklet. I hate sitting on them for longer than 30 days, but if people plan to buy them within the week, then there is no problem. We still have a few of the 4 Special Guest modules left, so not sure how I'll do those, maybe just a smaller 60~65ish run instead of 75.

I completely agree with the notion that you cannot impact the value of the originals by distributing facimiles. And I can say the same from my observations of how little the illegal PDF distribution is impacting on the marketplace.

I do acknowledge that there may be a slight impact occasionally in someome's decision to buy or make do with an illegal PDF when it comes to current publications, but as far as OOP publications go, there is plenty of evidence that there is no tangible impact on value of the originals, and no evidence at all that anyone is financially impacted.

The moral issue is whether it is acceptable for an individual to profit from illegally using someone elses IP. Not whether in doing so they are financially harmed. Is it morally acceptable to create a limited edition item, something of inherent value that will appreciate in value, based on illegally using someone elses work?

And if that were not the intent, and this were purely a 'research' project, then why not make the product available to all comers instead of a select few?

Or.. Place the morally conflicted document in an envelope and stick it in storage with an explanation of your moral conflict. Leave it in a safe place for your children or grandchildren to resolve and trust that future generations will either make their own decision or the IP will pass it's statutory limitation and the moral conflict will no longer exist. Either way, they have the option to sell, or destroy, as they see fit.

Little books that future generations will be asked to ebrace or take to be destroyed in the fires of Mount Doom.

FormCritic wrote:I imagine we're the only people in the teacup who care about this little tempest.

I suspect there are a few others over at DF who also care, but for totally different reasons.

mbassoc2003 wrote:I'm wondering if I should start marketting PDFs without approval from the copyright holders. It seems as though the forum's moral standing has moved in favour of this sort of activity, and I have a nice set of the the big five Role Aids tourneys I've been trying to get Mayfair to give me permission to release for years.

I suspect people would part with £10 for a well presented set of Role Aids tourneys, and it's not like the PDFs would impact on anyone who has the originals.

In fact, maybe this sort of thing would drum up interest in the collecting of the rare non-TSR collectables.