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CGC Grading Etc...
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Mordenkainen
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 1:49 am

Back again with more basic questions:

1. I have modules which are "TSR file copies" (copies from the TSR library as vouched for by none other than @exTSR). While I appreciate that Frank puts his name and reputation on the line when he makes this claim, I am unsure how CGC would handle this extra tidbit of information about these pieces. Should I just withhold the certificate he provided and then reunite it with the slabbed module when I get it back from CGC? Or should I submit the certificate for some kind of consideration/notes on the label?

2. I've got a few modules which look great... except for the staple rust. Some were bad enough to motivate me to remove the staples - my thinking here was to arrest the staining of the paper. Is the popular wisdom here to submit without staples? Or perhaps send them for restoration with period appropriate staples? Or perhaps just keep them as reader copies now that they've been compromised?

I appreciate any advice/suggestions you all have to offer here!

Tszii
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 9:32 am

No idea on #1. I know, in the end, some stuff is only going to be appreciated by the owner though. I have a module with a signature I am very happy about. I sent it and got it back. I doubt CGC would grade it as signed.

#2 I think we had a bit of a response on rust. Rusty staples seem to take off points, but wont continue to lower a grade, alone, beyond a certain point. I think replaced staples would end up with a different label.

https://www.cgccomics.com/grading/labels/

Conserved Label (Blue/Grey)

This label is applied to any comic book with specific repairs done to improve the structural integrity and long-term preservation. These repairs include tear seals support, staple replacement, piece reattachment and certain kinds of cleaning. View the CGC Conservation Grading scale.

Missing and detached pages also get a green label it seems

Mordenkainen
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 1:05 pm

I did see the part about the restoration label - but it's not clear to me if a removed staple damages the rating more or less than a rusty staple. (Surely a removed staple isn't a restoration? )

Philflound
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 1:40 pm

Mordenkainen wrote in CGC Grading Etc...:Back again with more basic questions:

1. I have modules which are "TSR file copies" (copies from the TSR library as vouched for by none other than @exTSR). While I appreciate that Frank puts his name and reputation on the line when he makes this claim, I am unsure how CGC would handle this extra tidbit of information about these pieces. Should I just withhold the certificate he provided and then reunite it with the slabbed module when I get it back from CGC? Or should I submit the certificate for some kind of consideration/notes on the label?

2. I've got a few modules which look great... except for the staple rust. Some were bad enough to motivate me to remove the staples - my thinking here was to arrest the staining of the paper. Is the popular wisdom here to submit without staples? Or perhaps send them for restoration with period appropriate staples? Or perhaps just keep them as reader copies now that they've been compromised?

I appreciate any advice/suggestions you all have to offer here!

1. We probably wouldn't recognize anything with regards with TSR library. Though send me a pic or two of the cert at pdispenza@collectiblesgroup.com and I'll talk to the president. I'm not making promises. Probably should hold on to them yourself and keep the paperwork with the graded items when you get them back. Are the actual modules stamped or autographed at all? Answer these 2 questions and I can probably give you a definitive answer.

2. Probably should not submit these. I'm assuming rust was so bad that they stained the paper and possibly damaged it some at the staple holes. Replacing staples will give you a restored label, which most people try to avoid. Probably not worth your $ to spend on grading.

Philflound
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 1:54 pm

Tszii wrote in CGC Grading Etc...:
Missing and detached pages also get a green label it seems

This is not necessarily true, depending on grade. The green label is a qualified grade where the item looks like a 3.5 or higher condition, but if you do a true grade with the defect, it would be lower. Some people do not like the green qualified label at all and request a blue label. Missing at least 1/2 (maybe 1/3) of a page will yield a 0.5 blue label. n get as high as a 7.5.

The thing with modules and "I'm not telling you to do this" is that the booklets on many are not attached to the cover. We're experts in determining 99.9% of the time if a cover is "married" to an interior. There are many tell-tale signs, and with several eyes on each book, we're usually confident when determining when something has been married. With the D&D modules, booklets are not attached. So putting booklets from another copy with a different cover is possible and we would not know it. Sort of like getting pieces from one monopoly to complete another. Though we are experts, so if there are certain defects that can be determined don't belong, we may still call married. Also, you have to make sure the correct interiors are with the correct covers depending on certain printings.

Phil

Last edited by Philflound on Thu Oct 17, 2024 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Philflound
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 2:03 pm

Last edited by Philflound on Thu Oct 17, 2024 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tszii
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 2:12 pm

Mordenkainen wrote in CGC Grading Etc...:I did see the part about the restoration label - but it's not clear to me if a removed staple damages the rating more or less than a rusty staple. (Surely a removed staple isn't a restoration? )

I think they just grade what is there, then qualify it with a green label noting missing staples. So, it kinda doesn't hurt the actual grade?

Supernaut
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 7:37 pm

Mordenkainen wrote in CGC Grading Etc...:Should I just withhold the certificate he provided and then reunite it with the slabbed module when I get it back from CGC? Or should I submit the certificate for some kind of consideration/notes on the label?

Philflound wrote in CGC Grading Etc...: Probably should hold on to them yourself and keep the paperwork with the graded items when you get them back.

We're effectively talking about provenance, right? BadMike echoed earlier in this thread that it was advisable to hold and reunite post slab, which Phil echoes here as well. It'll be interesting to see if and how slabber support for this potential feature will pan out... :roll:

Sir Kill Alot
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Posted: Mon May 27, 2024 12:24 am

This is insane...

** expired/removed eBay auction **

-SKA

Philflound
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Posted: Mon May 27, 2024 1:37 am

The thing with all these graded modules is putting "highest graded" is not as impressive as people may think. That B1 is the ONLY graded 4th printing out there, so of course it is the highest. I'm technically going to have the highest graded original 3 rulebooks of 4th printing because they are going to be the ONLY 4th printing to be graded. I had to build them before submitting. Thing is, the original boxed sets, we have not graded any 1st - 3rd printings. So if you want to be
the first, send them in.

Now may be the time to send this stuff in and sell it. You may realize the most for your modules. Is it taking advantage? Probably. But I'd rather see collectors make money, maybe to even buy more stuff for their collection.

Phil

DiscoDadda
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Posted: Mon May 27, 2024 5:20 pm

Sir Kill Alot wrote in CGC Grading Etc...:This is insane...

** expired/removed eBay auction **

-SKA

I guess it's in the eye of the "Beholder"

Disco

Tszii
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Posted: Mon May 27, 2024 5:39 pm

Sir Kill Alot wrote in CGC Grading Etc...:This is insane...

** expired/removed eBay auction **

-SKA

You aren't wrong.

And the "internal writing" note would be a deal breaker for me in all but the highest grades.

I am in the camp who thinks mid and high grade modules are going to be much more expensive in the coming years. And I doubt there are any raw B1 4th prints currently available on ebay that would grade a 7.5, but there were a couple in shrink that sold for about $250. I wouldn't have thought anything of it if they went for $350. And $400+ for a 8.0+ might be common in a couple years. There will be impatient mistakes like this between now and then.

Me in a tent qualifies as a camp right?

Badmike
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Posted: Tue May 28, 2024 12:41 pm

Tszii wrote in CGC Grading Etc...:
I am in the camp who thinks mid and high grade modules are going to be much more expensive in the coming years. And I doubt there are any raw B1 4th prints currently available on ebay that would grade a 7.5, but there were a couple in shrink that sold for about $250. I wouldn't have thought anything of it if they went for $350. And $400+ for a 8.0+ might be common in a couple years. There will be impatient mistakes like this between now and then.

Me in a tent qualifies as a camp right?

You aren't wrong. Anyone paying $800 for an average condition module is going to feel like a chump in a few years when more and more of these come on the market. Collectors will generally be on the lookout for 8.5 or higher grades, and I also feel they will rise in price as their rarity at those grades becomes apparent.

Mike B

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Sir Kill Alot
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Posted: Tue May 28, 2024 5:59 pm

I'm curious, how big does the census typically need to be in order to see a pricing structure emerge? Maybe someone on the comic side would know that.

A note on possible available items based purely on print run sizes. After re-reading the print run information found here: Print Run
There could be a possibility the number of really nice items may be smaller than anyone can imagine. Using the Acaeum's eBay search shows very little in what many of us would consider 'collector grade' copies of stuff. Out of the whopping 42,000 items a search for 'Dungeons and Dragons' returns, maybe 100 could be considered really nice 1st Edition books.

Maybe this price of $850 IS a valid base. One last note... Second edition print runs were even smaller according to the link above, so there is some food for thought on how that edition will fair in the era of professional grading…

-SKA

stratochamp
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Posted: Tue May 28, 2024 6:34 pm

Badmike wrote in CGC Grading Etc...:
You aren't wrong. Anyone paying $800 for an average condition module is going to feel like a chump in a few years when more and more of these come on the market. Collectors will generally be on the lookout for 8.5 or higher grades, and I also feel they will rise in price as their rarity at those grades becomes apparent.

Mike B

As you know I agree with you. Relatively speaking our hobby is still in its infancy and many people buy items to scratch a short term itch, rather than a long term salve. Prices will eventually rise dramatically for high end items as they have for scarce items. As I've mentioned before some people looking to acquire older items are still viewing the items for their utility instead of their collectability (which is fine for them to do that). Many folks were complaining about rising prices in the comics world when "The Dentist" plunked down the outrageous amount of $25,000 for an Action Comics #1 back in 1977. Well one just sold for $6 million. And there are about 100 left.

Shrink is not a condition

Tszii
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Posted: Tue May 28, 2024 6:48 pm

stratochamp wrote in CGC Grading Etc...:As you know I agree with you. Relatively speaking our hobby is still in its infancy and many people buy items to scratch a short term itch, rather than a long term salve. Prices will eventually rise dramatically for high end items as they have for scarce items. As I've mentioned before some people looking to acquire older items are still viewing the items for their utility instead of their collectability (which is fine for them to do that). Many folks were complaining about rising prices in the comics world when "The Dentist" plunked down the outrageous amount of $25,000 for an Action Comics #1 back in 1977. Well one just sold for $6 million. And there are about 100 left.

Btw, I think it was your posts, a few years ago, that made me begin to focus on quality.

Philflound
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Posted: Tue May 28, 2024 7:05 pm

Just got 2 copies of S1 in today for grading from someone. Both are first prints. One has a blue interior cover print and the other has a light green. I remember something similar with I believe another module where the printed map on the interior cover came in 2 different color shades, though for the life of me, can't remember which adventure. There is nothing here about S1 having 2 different color interior for the cover. Anyone have an idea. I am not breaking out a variation on this, but if S1 does come in 2 different color cover interiors, I may note it on the label. Thanks.

Phil

Tszii
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Posted: Tue May 28, 2024 9:55 pm

Some are just green.

Its a bad answer. I researched this in 2017. There are not good answers. The ones that are green all look alike though.

Some covers are also more pink than others. Ill try put something together by the weekend to illustrate this if I can.

UK versions are black btw.

Last edited by Tszii on Tue May 28, 2024 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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