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Post Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:42 pm 
 

deimos3428 wrote:You have very flawed logic indeed, but there are no forms of violence that are legal in a classroom.


1)  Violence that did not actually happen.

2)  Violence that was not actually violent.

3)  Violence commited by someone else.

4)  Violence by a person who did not know right from wrong.

5)  Violence commited by a person with special rights.


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:10 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:1)  Violence that did not actually happen.

2)  Violence that was not actually violent.

3)  Violence commited by someone else.

4)  Violence by a person who did not know right from wrong.

5)  Violence commited by a person with special rights.
Nice try.  "Reductio ad absurdum" mean anything to you?  :roll:

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:31 am 
 

deimos3428 wrote:Nice try.  "Reductio ad absurdum" mean anything to you?  :roll:


Clearly, this discussion is now pointless.


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:53 pm 
 

red_bus wrote:Parliament is dissolved, the hustings are under way, I am organising a big party for the 6th May.  Fun, fun, fun.  However, for those outside our blessed land, who are curious as to the odder workings of the UK electoral process, I thought this was an amusing article, and not entirely without educational merit.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010 ... ready.html


:D


Nicely wrapped up on a single page. Easy to read as well. Thanks.

Can you tell me of the 3 parties what they are like, or is there a comparison to the Republicans and Democrats here in the US?


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:04 pm 
 

Invincible Overlord wrote:
Nicely wrapped up on a single page. Easy to read as well. Thanks.

Can you tell me of the 3 parties what they are like, or is there a comparison to the Republicans and Democrats here in the US?


Historically, Labour were left-wing (Democrat?), Conservative right (Republican) and Liberal-Democrat in the middle  (Democrat?). There are also the Green Party, BNP (British Nationalist Party [or a racist National Front in some/most eyes!!]) and other minority parties. Monster Raving Looney, for one!

Nowadays, there is much more of a blurring (IMO) and (again IMO) there is much less talk of policies and much talk about what the other parties are NOT doing...(particularly from the Conservative leader)  :roll:

The recent 1st ever televised debate appears to have gone very well for the Liberal leader, who (again historically) always finishes third. There are two further televised debates planned.

I think its a very different process to the US elections, from what I have seen, but as most elections, has its own problems.


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:39 pm 
 

ashmire13 wrote:
Historically, Labour were left-wing (Democrat?), Conservative right (Republican) and Liberal-Democrat in the middle  (Democrat?). There are also the Green Party, BNP (British Nationalist Party [or a racist National Front in some/most eyes!!]) and other minority parties. Monster Raving Looney, for one!

Nowadays, there is much more of a blurring (IMO) and (again IMO) there is much less talk of policies and much talk about what the other parties are NOT doing...(particularly from the Conservative leader)  :roll:

The recent 1st ever televised debate appears to have gone very well for the Liberal leader, who (again historically) always finishes third. There are two further televised debates planned.

I think its a very different process to the US elections, from what I have seen, but as most elections, has its own problems.


Can the public petition for a minister or prime minister to face a no-confidence election or are you stuck with them for a set amount of years like we are in the USA?

  


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:44 pm 
 

They get 5 years, but can be ousted internally through their own party if things are looking bad, or they can step down.

In certain cases, they can call an early election.


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:47 pm 
 

ashmire13 wrote:They get 5 years, but can be ousted internally through their own party if things are looking bad, or they can step down.

In certain cases, they can call an early election.


I wish we could give our politicians 5 years, with a sledge hammer, ankle chains and a quarry. It would be interesting to try an actual democracy somewhere and see if it worked.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:51 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:It would be interesting to try an actual democracy somewhere and see if it worked.


:lol:  :lol:  Now thats just crazy talk!    :wink:


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:09 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:
Can the public petition for a minister or prime minister to face a no-confidence election or are you stuck with them for a set amount of years like we are in the USA?


The prime minister has to call national elections at least once every five years (it is five, right?).

Often, if the party in power feels strong they will call for new elections right away to increase their majority.

The pattern for exiting prime ministers is not so much to lose an election (although this does happen) as to lose control of their party and get ousted by an internal rival.  Tony Blair, for instance, was replaced by another member of Labour.  Margaret Thatcher was replaced by another member of the Conservatives.

Government in Britian is more fluid because ministers can come and go as issues develop.  Every new prime minister brings in a "new government."  It is also more ridgid because party loyalty is paramount.  (The idea of "partisan politics" is a perjorative in America but it is the norm in Britain.)

The British have a great system for a nation that has historically been quite homogenous in culture and overall worldview.  (Although, I imagine that has changed some in the last five decades.)  They work through a system of traditions and precedents that make up a largely unwritten constitution that has roughly as much power as our written constitution.

Our own American Revolution was not sparked by a desire to change the British constitution.  The first shots were fired because Paliament was acting in violation of established law.  Our own constitution was then written by men who deeply admired the best of English Common Law.


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:30 am 
 

Thats a pretty good summary :)


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:02 am 
 

Hiya,

thats pretty close.

"Tony Blair, for instance, was replaced by another member of Labour. Margaret Thatcher was replaced by another member of the Conservatives. "

Not entirely true in Blairs case - it was a lot more complex, but true in Thatchers.

"Every new prime minister brings in a "new government.""
This is called reshuffling, and can happen whenever the PM feels like it :)

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Post Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:30 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:
The prime minister has to call national elections at least once every five years (it is five, right?).

Often, if the party in power feels strong they will call for new elections right away to increase their majority.

The pattern for exiting prime ministers is not so much to lose an election (although this does happen) as to lose control of their party and get ousted by an internal rival.  Tony Blair, for instance, was replaced by another member of Labour.  Margaret Thatcher was replaced by another member of the Conservatives.

Government in Britian is more fluid because ministers can come and go as issues develop.  Every new prime minister brings in a "new government."  It is also more ridgid because party loyalty is paramount.  (The idea of "partisan politics" is a perjorative in America but it is the norm in Britain.)

The British have a great system for a nation that has historically been quite homogenous in culture and overall worldview.  (Although, I imagine that has changed some in the last five decades.)  They work through a system of traditions and precedents that make up a largely unwritten constitution that has roughly as much power as our written constitution.

Our own American Revolution was not sparked by a desire to change the British constitution.  The first shots were fired because Paliament was acting in violation of established law.  Our own constitution was then written by men who deeply admired the best of English Common Law.


That is a good summary.  Certainly much better than I could do on US government.

One thing that may be different this year is, because the liberal democrats are doing very well in the polls, we could end up with a hung parliament on May 7th.  And in turn the possibility of a coalition government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_government

We don't have much of a history if this kind of government at all -- over the last century, power has traditionally moved from left (labour) to the right (conservative) and back again.  But at the moment, it looks like it might be quite likely…


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:28 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:It would be interesting to try an actual democracy somewhere and see if it worked.
Yes, crazy talk. Actual Democracies always fail when 51% of the population discovers it can take everything the remaining 49% has.

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding 'What's for dinner?'

That's why the U.S. Constitution established a Republic. It even says so in Article 4. A shame no one living has ever seen it run as intended.

As I recall, it was Benjamin Franklin who was asked what form of government the U.S. Constitution established. He replied (and I may be paraphrasing a bit), "A Republic. If you can keep it."

  

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Post Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:56 pm 
 

SimperingToad wrote:Yes, crazy talk. Actual Democracies always fail when 51% of the population discovers it can take everything the remaining 49% has.

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding 'What's for dinner?'

That's why the U.S. Constitution established a Republic. It even says so in Article 4. A shame no one living has ever seen it run as intended.

As I recall, it was Benjamin Franklin who was asked what form of government the U.S. Constitution established. He replied (and I may be paraphrasing a bit), "A Republic. If you can keep it."


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:17 pm 
 

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.

Attributed to Alexander Tytler (1747 - 1813)


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:31 pm 
 

I've always been fascinated by Everest and would love to make basecamp, but wouldn't risk myself to go to the top. But this is something else by the Sherpa's!

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100420/tod ... 0a197.html


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:32 pm 
 

Now this would seriously piss me off! It'll be interesting if they can make this stick, as it looks as though they aren't being challenged at the moment...

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/20042010/ ... -odds.html


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