Badmike wrote:Please elaborate. What was the main difference between 3 and 4 that made it more fun?
robertsconley wrote:The combat system, regardless if you consider it D&D, appears to be a good game. The rules hang together well, there are no obvious abusive powers in the previews. We will have to wait until the PHB to see if it holds up over all levels. The combat system is fun in the same way Magic the Gathering was fun, Car Wars, Battletech, Mage Knight; it is good set of rules so far.Doesn't sound bad. I've heard combat was simpler and this is a good thing. Also I know this is heresy but 4th edition appears to do the best job of portraying the respective classes of any edition. Yes, you're right. It's heresay I always thought it was the PLAYER'S job to portray their character...but you probably mean by the types of powers and abilities available to the character. Even then the player is the one that decides if their Paladin or Bard keeps to a certain archetype or ranges far afield.The quickstart has minimal role-playing rules. From the previews there we know there are non-combat systems. How they work and how fun they are.Again it not like any other edition's D&D combat system. From reading other people's post here that is an obvious and expected deal breaker.It's not a dealbreaker for me at all if the game was called, say, D&D Minis Combat, or Monsters and Mages Combat Game, or anything else but what it is called, Dungeons & Dragons. Again I wouldn't be against the game on it's own merits, but I suspect like many old schoolers the objections are in trying to link it to the classic game.One thing that I recommend for any editions is the idea of minions. Basically in 4th edition monsters are not presented as a single entity within the Monster Manual. They have several versions of the monster geared towards different roles. Like the Kobold Dragonshields hold the front line while Kobold slingers fire in. Not a bad idea...A lot of monsters have a minion class. Regardless of how many HD or levels a minions has it always has 1 hp. It's stats are powerful enough to threaten the PC and it's defenses are high enough to cause the occasional miss at that level. But it always dies in one hit....but that part sounds VERY video gamey.This has the effect of the allowing the DM to send a horde of creatures after the PCs without it being a total cakewalk for the PCs or a Total Party Wipeout. For a high fantasy style came I would consider Minions an excellent addition and all you would need to do, for older editions, is to set the "minion" monster to 1 hp.
robertsconley wrote:The combat system, regardless if you consider it D&D, appears to be a good game. The rules hang together well, there are no obvious abusive powers in the previews. We will have to wait until the PHB to see if it holds up over all levels. The combat system is fun in the same way Magic the Gathering was fun, Car Wars, Battletech, Mage Knight; it is good set of rules so far.
Also I know this is heresy but 4th edition appears to do the best job of portraying the respective classes of any edition.
The quickstart has minimal role-playing rules. From the previews there we know there are non-combat systems. How they work and how fun they are.Again it not like any other edition's D&D combat system. From reading other people's post here that is an obvious and expected deal breaker.
One thing that I recommend for any editions is the idea of minions. Basically in 4th edition monsters are not presented as a single entity within the Monster Manual. They have several versions of the monster geared towards different roles. Like the Kobold Dragonshields hold the front line while Kobold slingers fire in.
A lot of monsters have a minion class. Regardless of how many HD or levels a minions has it always has 1 hp. It's stats are powerful enough to threaten the PC and it's defenses are high enough to cause the occasional miss at that level. But it always dies in one hit.
This has the effect of the allowing the DM to send a horde of creatures after the PCs without it being a total cakewalk for the PCs or a Total Party Wipeout. For a high fantasy style came I would consider Minions an excellent addition and all you would need to do, for older editions, is to set the "minion" monster to 1 hp.
Plaag wrote:Anyway in all fairness, I'm not closed to the idea of 4th edition, as I plan to purchase somethings - just not WotC's splat books/modules. Have to get Tegel Manor, check on some DCCs, but if things look bad, I've always got C&C and Pathfinder and in a way Privateer Press.ShaneG.
robertsconley wrote:The combat system, regardless if you consider it D&D, appears to be a good game. The rules hang together well, there are no obvious abusive powers in the previews. We will have to wait until the PHB to see if it holds up over all levels. The combat system is fun in the same way Magic the Gathering was fun, Car Wars, Battletech, Mage Knight; it is good set of rules so far.Also I know this is heresy but 4th edition appears to do the best job of portraying the respective classes of any edition. The quickstart has minimal role-playing rules. From the previews there we know there are non-combat systems. How they work and how fun they are.Again it not like any other edition's D&D combat system. From reading other people's post here that is an obvious and expected deal breaker.One thing that I recommend for any editions is the idea of minions. Basically in 4th edition monsters are not presented as a single entity within the Monster Manual. They have several versions of the monster geared towards different roles. Like the Kobold Dragonshields hold the front line while Kobold slingers fire in. A lot of monsters have a minion class. Regardless of how many HD or levels a minions has it always has 1 hp. It's stats are powerful enough to threaten the PC and it's defenses are high enough to cause the occasional miss at that level. But it always dies in one hit.This has the effect of the allowing the DM to send a horde of creatures after the PCs without it being a total cakewalk for the PCs or a Total Party Wipeout. For a high fantasy style came I would consider Minions an excellent addition and all you would need to do, for older editions, is to set the "minion" monster to 1 hp.Rob Conley
FormCritic wrote:I would suggest that "curmudgeon" and "munchkin" are opposite extremes, but both are equal fun-killers. Curmdgeons are not superior to munchkins.
FormCritic wrote:Probably the most daunting thing about 4.0 is $120+ for three new books. I don't see myself plunking that down right away.
deimos3428 wrote:As far as I can tell, the only people that seem to be taking a shine to 4E thus far are those that frequently play 3.0/3.5. Though a lot of disenfranchised 3Eers are looking for greener pastures entirely, it would seem.
deimos3428 wrote:If someone who primarily plays 1E/2E could give a review, that would be much more interesting to read. The new version might well be rules-light compared to 3E, but since when is 3E a bellwether for D&D? (Quite a lot of us don't consider 3E to be D&D at all...)4E seems very heavily over-architected for an RPG, at least in th examples we've seen. It certainly reads more like a CCG, wargame, or videogame.
deimos3428 wrote:As far as I can tell, the only people that seem to be taking a shine to 4E thus far are those that frequently play 3.0/3.5. Though a lot of disenfranchised 3Eers are looking for greener pastures entirely, it would seem. If someone who primarily plays 1E/2E could give a review, that would be much more interesting to read. The new version might well be rules-light compared to 3E, but since when is 3E a bellwether for D&D? (Quite a lot of us don't consider 3E to be D&D at all...)4E seems very heavily over-architected for an RPG, at least in th examples we've seen. It certainly reads more like a CCG, wargame, or videogame.So if you play 1E and like 4E, please speak up and say why.
FormCritic wrote:..the basic question is about the engine:IF 1=5% and strength = 3d6 and "to hit" = x and "damage" = "hit points" then the engine is essentially unchanged and it's the same game.
stumbling tiger wrote: Your formulation of the engine is concise and elegantly stated, but I don't get the ' 1=5%' and ' "to hit" = x' part, maybe because I never played 3.x. In OD&D through 2E, x = a number between 0 and 21 determined by a chart in the rule book (attacker's level vs defender's AC). In 3E, x = defender's AC , a number between (?) 10 and (??) three billion.
Busman wrote:I quite despised 3x, but am pretty excited about 4e. I prefer OD&D and AD&D and never really got into 2e, so take what I said previously as from someone whom you are targeting.
It amazes me that people think Dragonborn and them breathing fire is so WAY out there when Robots and White Apes from Mars are in the original D&D books, when playing a dragon character is discussed in the AD&D DMG.
making sure everyone has something to do at nearly all times is a good thing. Yes, it's different from the Magic-User choosing his one time a day to cast his one spell at first level, but making sure everyone at the table is having something to do each round in combat is more fun for everyone.
Busman wrote:........It amazes me that people think Dragonborn and them breathing fire is so WAY out there when Robots and White Apes from Mars are in the original D&D books, when playing a dragon character is discussed in the AD&D DMG. D&D is about adventuring possibilities, and 4e designers seem to embrace this.......
HOW can a humanoid breath ANY dragon like breath weapon without also destroying his or her own body?
