TheMilford wrote:So far it's 12 to 10 FOR an increase...

Again. So what.

This poll is worthless. No offense meant.

Trying to use this poll as leverage to alter the count is equally illigitimate. In fact, it is damn close to being offensive.

Again, the committee made a decision and we all have to live with that. Next time we jack the number to 100 and 54 people actually want in. The organizers did their best. Nobody likes to be left out. I get that. But I have been left out before, big deal. We move on.

And TheMilford, please do think I am directing this at you. But I knew the "check the new poll" post was coming. You just beat the other guys to it.

if i could be arsed to vote, I'd say I dont give a sh*t...  

TheMilford wrote:
How so? We've been told this discourse is not offensive... that they are big boys that can "take it". Still nobody is flaming just yet. Heated yes... but no flames.

And I was just pointing out that it was still close.

Simply because the decision has been made. Now we a poll show up to change that decision. We already know there are people who want the number expanded - the wait list is the sign and we have seen posts regarding this very issue. Why create a poll? To strongarm in populist methodology a different answer.

Again, I am not targeting any one individual. But this business needs to end. Sometimes you just have to say, "Sucks to be me, today." And Move ON.

Funny how all the disaffected can vote in this poll within 6 hours of it showing up, but didn't make the 50 on the original post. Hell, I didn't add my name for about three days. I saw it, and blew it off for a couple days. I am sure I was not alone....

Bbarsh, the committee has very clearly asked for comment and opinion so why are you insisting comment and opinion should cease? Can't we equally apply the magic phrase, "The committee has decided", there should be comment and opinion? Okay, so I'm not sure this poll is hugely useful but the author stated his reasons for creating it and unless somebody is stepping up to call him a liar then we accept those reasons, don't we? You are clearly pleased with things as they currently stand, as it is your right to be. Why won't you allow room for other points of view? Do you see counter opinion as some sort of a threat?

Despite others suggesting I haven't read through the details of the main thread, despite people suggesting everything is straightforward and sound reasons have been given for decisions taken to date, I have actually read the thread carefully and I have taken note of the reasoning behind the decisions taken. And I can assure you, or you can go and check yourself, things are not nearly as cut and dried as is being suggested and the rationale for excluding certain members of the community is laughably flimsy if viewed from a more distant perspective. Excluding the genuine concern by Mike at the levels of work he might have to do, unpaid work done on a voluntary basis so I appreciate his issues, nobody has effectively, or even credibly, addressed the very fair questions raised by those who were not aware of this thread in the short 3 day period during which the idea was raised and the firm decision for 50 copies taken. You may recall, even that decision jumped the gun as the clear intent was to reach a decision on the Sunday, not the Friday. But these are mere facts.

Some have gone as far as to claim the original intent was to produce 50 copies. Again, I refer those people back to the record where they will see a fundamental shift from thinking 20 maximum was achievable through to a sudden declaration there would be a limit, despite the continuing interest. Now if that interest had started to reach into the multiple hundreds or thousands I can see the argument for not over-reaching. But when a couple of months later only 16 or 17 more people have come forward to express an interest then there are clearly no valid grounds to exclude them other than the one point raised by Mike. Well actually there is ONE other possible explanation and we both know what it is. I can see that somebody has already accused those on the outside looking in of having hidden motives, laughable isn't it? A complete reversal of probability. But the lengths some have gone to to justify the exclusion of a handful of members here has been of similar calibre and really doesn't do any credit to the community.

Ben has (I think) indicated this project will no longer be referred to in terms of the community and if that's the case, whilst I think it's a sad outcome, I applaud him for it, because it really would be a very poor reflection on our community if this project continued to be viewed as anything other than a private arrangement between a group of individuals connected to the Acaeum. In light of that, when you say the committee has decided and that's the end of it you are quite right. If that's the way they want to proceed then there is little anyone can do about it. So you might consider relaxing.

I see from your various postings your main concerns are related to exclusivity and guaranteeing authenticity and so forth. Please don't be too offended if I tell you that strikes me as the attitude of a person far more interested in the financial value of this project rather than the community value. So I understand why you are so vehement that several of your fellow Acaeum members be left in the cold. Am I being unreasonable or am I simply interpreting what you yourself have clearly set out? Only you will know and I can merely speculate, which I've taken the opportunity to do based on the provocativeness of your attitude. I know it won't sit well with you and that's unfortunate but it's not unreasonable to expect as much when your message to those outside is essentially, "Tough mate, p*ss off!"

What I can't understand about any of the members who have voted NO or have remained silent in the face of calls from their fellow members to be included is if this is really all about encapsulating the spirit of gaming and relating it to the Acaeum then why on earth would they object to another member being included provided they were part of the experience themselves? There's no respectable reason for it (again, I defer Mike's reason because it relates to the sweat of his brow for zero reward).

I also take note of the members who have spoken up and made very calm and rational suggestions that would put the entire issue to bed and restore a community atmosphere to this project, something I think Ben intended at the outset judging from his early postings. I admire those people for speaking up in what can often be a harsh environment, and that includes Aneoth who I criticised for not paying attention to what I was saying rather than his general sense of fair play which he made clear early in the proceedings.

Very long-winded of me, I know, but the outcome of this project has surprised me. Especially when it never, ever needed to be this way and could easily be fixed. I still believe Ben and Paul and Mike and Grodog will step up and fix things, despite the waves of vehement self interest that it appears is crashing all around them. Like I said, we'll see.

Incidentally, if preparation and distribution is the key concern, I'll happily volunteer to pick up whatever excess work arises, without strings. I'm not sure if it's viable but the offer is there. Perhaps because I have not been faithful to the party line some people would be distressed at the thought of my involvement in any way, but surely somebody more user friendly could step up and offer a similar arrangement? I'm also prepared to underwrite the entire liability of the 17 (at last check) members on the waiting list. This is not a joke. If they don't pay then I will and you don't need to send me any prints. And I'll pay up-front if issues of trust arise. Now that's how strongly I feel about the term 'community', I'll put my money where my mouth is and it's a dead serious offer if anyone wants to take it up and let the excluded become the included.

Take a step back bbarsh and think again, will you?

Aneoth wrote:meg... I agree with most of your post.
Except that the Waiting list is actually at 18.

I am at 17, and the Lemur is at 18, plus one other person has asked to be placed on a list, either or both of them....

So really the waiting list is at 19.

LOL, in which case the offer is a guarantee for 19. And please don't help me any more Aneoth, I can't afford it!

megnelwil,

I have stated that I did not want the print run increased.  The reason was I did not want any committee member stuck with paying if we could not sell out the print run or some folks balked at paying.  However, your offer to make sure that does not happen takes care of that concern for me.

So I now support the move from 50 to 75 or whatever.  But mostly I support whatever decision the committee makes.  These guys are doing a wonderful job.

I will also put it on the record that if there were "extras" not paid for I would help with paying for them as well.

One last thing.  megnelwil, I'm glad I do not game with you as I'm sure your some kind of rules lawyer and I'm sure I would be constantly telling you to go screw yourself.   

Martin

One last thing.  megnelwil, I'm glad I do not game with you as I'm sure your some kind of rules lawyer and I'm sure I would be constantly telling you to go screw yourself.

I like the way you phrased that. I stand chastised but with a smile on my face.    You are probably right, most of my RPG career consisted, in the main, of heated arguments commencing, "No, it was a 20, you jogged it!"

I don't know if our joint (thank you very much) offer will be taken up but if it is I can only see it as enhancing the prospects for success. So I hope it will be considered.

bombadil wrote:
Strong enough to continue berating certain members of that "community"?

God, I wish I knew more psychology.  Does anyone else sense passive-aggressiveness in this post?  Divide and conquer?

Hi bombadil, am I creating the divide or commenting on it after the fact?

deimos3428 wrote:I just think all the conspiracy theories are funny.  Think about it.

Even if you could score a profit of a couple thousand bucks by "manufacturing a rare" or whatever sinister thing being accused -- it wouldn't be worth it for the amount of time spent.  Not even close.  It's off by at least an order of magnitude.

You'd be far better off putting in a few dozen hours overtime than trying to spend a few months trying to scam a large number of people on an obscure bit of art.

It works both ways... so then why hard-line on not printing enough for the 15-20 more that want to be a part of this.

It's so headshakingly silly that it would have to be some strange logic that would make then NOT want to print the difference...