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Converting Modern PRG Modules to OD&D or AD&D
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Gnat the Beggar
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Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:18 pm

Deadlord39 wrote:Another option is to not even bother with converting a 3E module. They mostly suck anyways. And you'd have to wash your hands afterwards before you touched a 1E book.

So, what modules might be an option for a young player then?

I have not DM'ed in about xx years or so and that was just for a short while until the group basically disbanded (Some moved others got Girlfriends, etcâ€¦..). And I really don't care to know all there is to know about 3rd edition or 3.5 or 4th or 16th edition when it comes out in a few more years â€¦â€¦

However, recently my grandson (Colton is 12 Years old) has expressed a growing interest in D&D (Table Top). He has been playing Play Station RPG's with me since he was about 6, and just a few months ago he was allowed to attend a session of BadMikes Table Top D&D game and I think he is hooked. He has asked me to DM him in a solo adventure using a Thief PC. So we have since then created a beginner thief PC for him using the TSR Core Rules 2 AD&D CD's.

However, while my grandson has had about 6 years of experience playing the Play Station version of D&D. (Mostly Dark Alliance 1 and 2 and a couple of others). He has no experience at Table Top D&D (or pen and paper as some older gamers call it). In some ways that is lucky for me as he has only one session of DMing (By Mike) to compare his grandpa's DMing to.......... Bad as that will be for the old man.

I searched all over E-Bay for Solo OD&D and AD&D modules and could never get one. Didn't really care what shape it was in, just so it was complete. After a while I finally gave up on that and started looking for likely candidates in the D20 market.

I saw some "1 on 1" modules on the XRP web site (D20 of course) and I purchased one using thief PC's, after reading it through I realized they assumed the Player would already be a veteran gamer, or at least with some experience, even if the PC was a low level character.

Anyway, after reading the Module I got from Expeditious Retreat Press (Gambler's Quest), I came to the harsh realization that it would not be as easy as I had thought. As stated above, the basic plot and the Key Maps and other basic data (NPC story lines/Treasure, etc.) are all laid out for the DM, but some of the material is simply not meant for a 12 year old. Adult themes in the story line and in the NPC actions are such that I would not be willing to run him in the game with no changes. (Not to mention the rules revisions).

So I would basically have to re-write much of the story, changing some encounters and other things that will of course change the entire run of the game and by the time I was done, I could almost have written a new Dungeon altogether.

Which is what it looks like I will be doing. Write my own deal altogether. Take some stuff from the modules, but use only some here and some there. Much like in the REALLY olden days when I was in the navy and at sea for months at a time with no game shop to get a module from. We had to make it all up as we wentâ€¦..

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killjoy32
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Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:23 pm

if you want him to play a 1 on 1 adventure anny, i would just DM one on the fly and let him experience a dungeon.

or you could be a little flexible with B1....always a classic.

you could run B2 and throw in a few NPCs to help him.

and of course O1 is always great

just a few off the bat.

Al

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Badmike
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Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:56 pm

killjoy32 wrote:if you want him to play a 1 on 1 adventure anny, i would just DM one on the fly and let him experience a dungeon.

or you could be a little flexible with B1....always a classic.

you could run B2 and throw in a few NPCs to help him.

and of course O1 is always great

just a few off the bat.

Al

Aneoth;

Al is right. There already exists a lot of stuff for 1st and 2nd edition that is perfect for you. I wish I lived closer I'd love to put you and Colston through a few adventures (BTW I hope my grandson becomes as interested in gaming as yours seems to be!)

I would second Al's recommendations. Especially B1, which is incredibly easy to run and lends itself to all sorts of experimentation by the DM. Likewise B2 (or many of the B series actually).

For low level play I also like N4. The HHQ series (players challenge) is specifically made for one player and one DM, although the level for many of these is more mid-level than just starting out. There are eight of these, two for each character class (fighter, thief, mage and priest), and they are pretty straightforward and easy to run. You might get by running them with one character and a couple of NPCs (definitely a priest for healing!) and fixing the encounters to make them a little less deadly.

You might also look at the D&D Thunder Rift series. I believe there are 8 of these, all lower level, and each comes with a nice fold out color map you can actually run the adventure on, along with handy fold up characters. Some of the names are Quest for theSilver Sword, Assault on Ravens Ruin, Thunder Rift, In the Phantom's Wake, Knight of Newts, etc. They all look like they would be very easy to run.

Another suggestion is to take a non spell casting class like fighter or thief, and give him a few levels (make him start out at, say, 3rd level) and give him a mage or cleric sidekick NPC you can run, along with a couple of 1st level fighter types. Two 3rd level characters could probably run some classic module like U1 or N2 without much extra help.

I'll try to email you some PDFs tonight or tomorrow that might help you out...

Mike B.

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Gnat the Beggar
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Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:46 pm

Badmike wrote:
Aneoth;

Al is right. There already exists a lot of stuff for 1st and 2nd edition that is perfect for you. I wish I lived closer I'd love to put you and Colston through a few adventures (BTW I hope my grandson becomes as interested in gaming as yours seems to be!)

I would second Al's recommendations. Especially B1, which is incredibly easy to run and lends itself to all sorts of experimentation by the DM. Likewise B2 (or many of the B series actually).

For low level play I also like N4. The HHQ series (players challenge) is specifically made for one player and one DM, although the level for many of these is more mid-level than just starting out. There are eight of these, two for each character class (fighter, thief, mage and priest), and they are pretty straightforward and easy to run. You might get by running them with one character and a couple of NPCs (definitely a priest for healing!) and fixing the encounters to make them a little less deadly.

You might also look at the D&D Thunder Rift series. I believe there are 8 of these, all lower level, and each comes with a nice fold out color map you can actually run the adventure on, along with handy fold up characters. Some of the names are Quest for theSilver Sword, Assault on Ravens Ruin, Thunder Rift, In the Phantom's Wake, Knight of Newts, etc. They all look like they would be very easy to run.

Another suggestion is to take a non spell casting class like fighter or thief, and give him a few levels (make him start out at, say, 3rd level) and give him a mage or cleric sidekick NPC you can run, along with a couple of 1st level fighter types. Two 3rd level characters could probably run some classic module like U1 or N2 without much extra help.

I'll try to email you some PDFs tonight or tomorrow that might help you out...

Mike B.

Thanks Mike, and Al and all you others too.

I tried to find an O-1 on E-Bay for a good price and never was able to get one.
It is reccommended for Level 8 though, so I did not try too hard.
I was also aware of the HHQ modules but have not seen them of late either.
I dont think I have ever had any of the Thunder Rift modules.
They must have come out near the end of AD&D, just prior to 3rd Edition.
Umn... I just read up on them using my browser.
Looks like they came out in 1992 and after.............

Looks interesting and might be exactly what I was looking for.

Mike do you have any of those you mentioned available in your store?
Especially these two in the Thunder Rift series:
Rage of the Rakasta (One on One, Levels 2-4)
or
Sword and Shield (One on One, Levels 1-3)

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Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:17 pm

islestrike wrote: Think of a 1E Module like Tomb of Horrors and how it would be converted forward to a 3E game.

S1 has been converted into 3E, a free download is available from the WoTC website, if you wanted to compare the two versions.

I think your assessment of the distinction with 3E and 1E being a difference between PC skill dependence and player skill dependence is very insightful. This is particularly evident in conversation skills (like bluff, etc.). In 3E, a bluff is a role of the dice, in 1E, the player actually has to convince the DM of the bluff!

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Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:40 pm

Grug Greyskin wrote:S1 has been converted into 3E, a free download is available from the WoTC website, if you wanted to compare the two versions.

White Plume Mountain, too! Same deal: a free download.

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Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:07 pm

Aneoth wrote:I tried to find an O-1 on E-Bay for a good price and never was able to get one.

I have O1 and O2 in fine to very fine condition for sale if interested. Bagged and boarded. $12.00 each plus $2.00 for shipping. You can take one or both. PM me your e-mail address, and I'll e-mail you pictures.

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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:32 am

benjoshua wrote:
I have O1 and O2 in fine to very fine condition for sale if interested. Bagged and boarded. $12.00 each plus $2.00 for shipping. You can take one or both. PM me your e-mail address, and I'll e-mail you pictures.

I also have a copy of O-2 which (IMO) is too advanced for a 12 year old, and as for O-1 (as I stated above) an 8th level game is not what I was looking to start him in, which is why I did not look all that hard for one on E-Bay. Besides, I was looking for one at what I would consider a reasonable price. At $12 each that prices them at twice the Acaeum Mint condition value listed.

Thanks for offering though.

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killjoy32
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:43 am

anny: just out of curiousity....have you tried looking at a few of the Judges Guild items? most of them are reasonably easy to get hold of and could easily be manipulated into games that he would enjoy.

sort of like umm book of treasure maps or book or ruins etc. both you can find easily enough and are useful for like having more than one adventure inside, so they are mini-adventures, so would prb be more suitable from that perspective (ie not that technical)

i still think B1 or B2 or even B3 are your best bets by far.

Al

*edit* PS: i have a pile of stuff in the back room *cough* - if anything is there that i am not going to sell on for whatever reason and its good enough to use for a game, i will send it over. i will have a look when i get home later on ok?

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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:48 am

killjoy32 wrote:anny: just out of curiousity....have you tried looking at a few of the Judges Guild items? most of them are reasonably easy to get hold of and could easily be manipulated into games that he would enjoy.

sort of like umm book of treasure maps or book or ruins etc. both you can find easily enough and are useful for like having more than one adventure inside, so they are mini-adventures, so would prb be more suitable from that perspective (ie not that technical)

i still think B1 or B2 or even B3 are your best bets by far.

Al

*edit* PS: i have a pile of stuff in the back room *cough* - if anything is there that i am not going to sell on for whatever reason and its good enough to use for a game, i will send it over. i will have a look when i get home later on ok?

AL, you are just chock full of good ideas, but Yeah I do have a few JG books, though not the Book of Maps or the Book of Treasure.
And yep, I have considered using my JG stuff to create a new game for him.

A couple of books (JG) I have are Frontier Forts of Kelnore and Caves and Caverns. Kelnore includes several outlines for buildings (Forts) with some basic fort outlines and rooms etc, and the Caves and Caverns are just what they sound like. Lots of caves and caverns. Both are easily adaptable to a wholly written game setting. I also have the Fantastic Personalities Book (Book of NPC's), along with a few of the game module books they came out with.

I also have B-1, B-2 and B-3 (I even have a copy of the Super module B1-9) and some other TSR Modules, most of them are pretty worn out, but playable.

As you know, I went and sold most of my stuff including all but a very few Mods to Mike, but I have somehow managed to retain 6 copies of X-1......... Those consist of about 1/5 of my entire collection of Modules......Sheese.

Not long ago I saw one go for like 25 bucks...... Wonder if that sucker is still out there?

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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:04 am

well for instance, the frontire forts of kelnore book would be perfect. pick one of the forts. meat it out a little with a small band of bandits....

your player could be 1 of a band of 3 (2 NPCs) and you have to infiltrate and capture the leader.

easy.

and prb a lot of fun too. you could have a little bit of wilderness adventure on the way to the fort, so giving him a little experience of more than 1 element of adventuring! i think he would have a blast.

Al

ps. oh of course, before i forget, there is a multitude of low level adventuring stuff you can get for free off dragonsfoot too. some of the stuff there is very cool too.

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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:06 pm

killjoy32 wrote:well for instance, the frontire forts of kelnore book would be perfect. pick one of the forts. meat it out a little with a small band of bandits....

your player could be 1 of a band of 3 (2 NPCs) and you have to infiltrate and capture the leader.

easy.

and prb a lot of fun too. you could have a little bit of wilderness adventure on the way to the fort, so giving him a little experience of more than 1 element of adventuring! i think he would have a blast.

Al

ps. oh of course, before i forget, there is a multitude of low level adventuring stuff you can get for free off dragonsfoot too. some of the stuff there is very cool too.

I just sent Annie a bunch of the low level Dragonsfoot stuff, which is very good IMO. Also a copy of U1, and DCC2: Lost Vaults and the conversion to 1st edition. If he's already got B1-3, X1 and the JG stuff he mentioned he's ready to go!

Mike B.

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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:07 pm

Grug Greyskin wrote:This is particularly evident in conversation skills (like bluff, etc.). In 3E, a bluff is a role of the dice, in 1E, the player actually has to convince the DM of the bluff!

Yup. I was thinking more along the lines of spotting tricks and traps but bluffing is also a good example. For a successful bluff to happen in 1E maybe you would need to have some prior knowledge gleaned elsewhere in the module (like capturing prisoners?), then if you are on the ball and savy enough you bust that knowledge out at a later time and by virtue of you doing so it is an automatic success. Note the player still needs to say all the right things and look in the right places to score these types of checks automatically in 1E. In 3E however the player need only state they want to bluff and the DM will make the check based on a Bluff skill vs. the target's Sense Motive. At best the player's check can be modified favourably if they did their homework but success is still a die roll. If the player doesn't have the base skill it's going to be a very hard roll to make regardless of what the player knows. Likewise a player with a high bluff skill might make the roll easily even without knowing what to bluff with!

Which is why any full scale 3E -> 1E conversion will fail the smell test if it doesn't add in the extra text to create these types of mental challenges for the player. What you wind up with is still a 3E module that happens to use descending armor class and a few other 1E magic numbers instead of d20 notation. :roll:

BTW none of this is intended as an argument for or against 1E or 3E. Just that people (publishers) need to be aware that a 1E conversion is more than just shrinking stat blocks. It's also mind games baby!

Cheers!

killjoy32
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:50 pm

its easy to play mind games with players. you dont need blocks of text to do that with!

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Gnat the Beggar
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:45 pm

Colton is 12, so mind games will be at a minimum, though some challenge is going to be in the game.

No foul language, nudity or sex either........ All monsters will have full clothing..... including any harpies, succubus, and vampires........
not that there will be any of them included anyway, since he will be starting at first level.

Mostly just your basic LOW level beginners wilderness and dungeon crawl with a few simple floor and/or door traps, a few easy critters to slay, and treasure chests with a few more traps tossed in to keep him less than honest.
(He will be playing a thief after all)

I dont want to scare him off of table top gaming in his first experience, and hopefully his PC will live to steal another day.

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copycat
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:02 pm

I'll assume you have a 1st edition AD&D DMG. You can just use the random dungeon maker. Or, alternatively, to plug myself... get Engineering Dungeons.

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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:12 pm

anny: do the kelnore thing. you can use him to sneak into the place, the fighter can take care of any force - they can sneak in, get the leader and get out.

it will be lots of fun for him. i did something similar to this the 1st game my daughter playet - she had to go rescue someone.

trust me, he will have a blast.

Al

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Gnat the Beggar
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:35 pm

I have all the core rules books (AD&D), plus the Core Rules CD 2. So no fears there.
I also have MM, MM-II, and the Fiend Folio, so I can insert monsters, monsters, and even more monsters where needed and all of it is well within my devious DMing hands reach......

Thanks to the good folks here I have plenty of other stuff to sift through in my spare time too.
I have a few weeks till I have to be ready for him, so I think I am set for now.
My great big thanks to all who posted here with advice and help.

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