there is only one way i will ever play D&D, and that is round a table with good fiends, one and all. i dont ever invite strangers and i would never DM an "open" game at gencon either. for me, its a meeting up of friends. the game itself is only a part of the thing. we would generally veer of the game from time to time, to laugh and joke about something and then back to the game.

to me thats what makes it special. i see what 4E is attempting to do and thats fair enough. i wont say i like or dislike it, because it just makes no difference to me. i will either DM around a table or i won't bother. thats why i am going to Gencon next time. not to buy stuff, but to game with my friends, renew acquaitances and meet old/new friends who i share a hobby with.

the way i DM, is i like to be on the table with the players. i dont hide behind the screen. its all done in the open and we can interact properly and do things quick. any other format for DMing and you simply couldnt do it.

i kinda like the concept that 4E has, but i just cant see how it will be a success, but hey whatever. if its what you like, cool!

i, myself, will stick to what i like and thats that. if that meant a trip to the US once a year for the next 10 years to DM a group of friends, then so be it. its not just a game. its an event and a gathering

(or an excuse to go adventuring!)

AL

killjoy32 wrote:there is only one way i will ever play D&D, and that is round a table with good fiends, one and all. i dont ever invite strangers and i would never DM an "open" game at gencon either. for me, its a meeting up of friends. the game itself is only a part of the thing. we would generally veer of the game from time to time, to laugh and joke about something and then back to the game.

to me thats what makes it special. i see what 4E is attempting to do and thats fair enough. i wont say i like or dislike it, because it just makes no difference to me. i will either DM around a table or i won't bother. thats why i am going to Gencon next time. not to buy stuff, but to game with my friends, renew acquaitances and meet old/new friends who i share a hobby with.

the way i DM, is i like to be on the table with the players. i dont hide behind the screen. its all done in the open and we can interact properly and do things quick. any other format for DMing and you simply couldnt do it.

i kinda like the concept that 4E has, but i just cant see how it will be a success, but hey whatever. if its what you like, cool!

i, myself, will stick to what i like and thats that. if that meant a trip to the US once a year for the next 10 years to DM a group of friends, then so be it. its not just a game. its an event and a gathering

(or an excuse to go adventuring!)

AL

Wow, lots of interesting points here. Not sure what to comment on first.

Regarding online gaming (which seems to be the new model for 4E) vs face to face gaming, I've done both, and had lots of fun with both.  Truly there is no substitute for a bunch of guys sitting around a table setting up minis and dwarven forge pieces, rolling dice, etc.  However, as time goes on and attrition takes more and more old school gamers out of the mix, not to mention the troubles trying to get more than three people together one night a week or month, I think online gaming will become more of an option for people like us.  

For one thing, online communities like the Acaeum and Dragonsfoot allow the ability to find like minded gamers quickly, even if they are elsewhere in the country.  This year I started DMing my first ever online campaign.  I honestly did not know what to expect at all.  First the guys I was playing with (Smarmy and Centerstage) I did not know at all.  Second, there was no graph paper, no minis, nothing but our imagination and a chat room (the dice roller, though, helped immensely!).  However we muddled through and began to have a lot of fun. Soon we added Skype, and the ability to import images and graph paper through whiteboard programs. I use the AD&D core rules program to print up character sheets each session and email them to the participants. Now truly the only thing we are missing is miniatures and dwarven forge walls and passages, and many old school people eschew those kinds of props anyway.  BTW if you want to see some of the detailed and exciting adventures we are doing online go to the board I set up to chronicle the adventures http://journals.aol.com/badmike3/b-series-campaign/

Now, once again my preference is face to face. But in this case, we game on Monday nights because A. I'm free and work at home, so I can choose my own hours; B. Smarmy works and has a family, and they are all in bed; Centerstage works really oddball hours and can only game late.  Not to mention we live in Texas, Alabama, and Ohio respectively.  We also have a group including LucyJoyce that CS is DMing, she is in Florida.  So obviously the chances that this group would have for face to face gaming is virtually nil.  If the decision is this or not gaming at all, I'll soldier through and make it work, because so far it's been exactly like "real" D&D...the climatic battle we ran this week in the campaign was just as nail biting and tense as any face to face session I've had.

My preference will ALWAYS be for face to face gaming. But as time goes on, and we have more and more obligations, and old school (2nd edition and earlier) gamers get more and more scattered, this may be one of the only viable options available.  I'd love it if my face to face group lived closer together, and we could guarantee a couple times a month....heck, ONCE a month would be awesome (We managed seven sessions this year, with two of them coming during the Christmas holidays).  It was great fun, and definitely a "more intensive" experience doing it face to face.  Was it more fun than online?  I'd have to say, about the same actually. The only negative is that I love miniatures, having several hundred lead painted figures, and dozens of the new plastic ones, and there is just nothing like plopping down the the giant dragon mini in front of your groups 1st level characters and watching everyone crap their pants....! I also love setting up tacticals, using dwarven forge and battlemats to set up a giant battle and having everyone move their own characters.  But the trade off is I can game online every week, with very little setup time, and absolutely no clean up time (except for myself, natch).

So while I understand Martin and Al's attitude of "face to face or nothing", I also find myself reluctantly embracing Deimos' point of view (also, if you know much about our resident Lemur expert, his remote location practically guarantees it is very difficult for him to get a face to face group together , especially during winter!) that gaming online is really no different in the long run, especially if circumstances dictate.

It's about having fun and hopefully keeping a live a rapidly disintigrating community....from what we've seen elsewhere in the thread, the FLGS is dying a slow but steady death, and without the hallowed "back room" with fold up tables and chairs to meet and game in, where will we be able to continue to bring in new blood or even meet people like ourselves who enjoy AD&D?

I wonder if this is the mindset 4E is tapping into.  I would agree with King who said that you can ALREADY game online, with all the benefits, without having to use the 4E portal which is basically "Their site, their rules" (unless you want to play 4E, in which case it will be a godsend).  I would not be surprised to see old school gaming moving more and more to an online model just because the diminishing numbers make it more and more difficult to field a table of 2-3 players each week.

Mike B.

I've brought this up before in related threads, so I'll keep it short this time: any online initiative from Wizards is going to have to be outstanding to equal what is already widely available (and well-loved) from Neverwinter Nights and NWN2.

For those who've never tried it, NWN offers an extremely rich (and stable) online environment using the 3.5 ruleset.

I am not optimistic that whatever Wizards comes up with will be able to hold a candle to NWN ... not optimistic at all. I'll just leave it at that.

I've no interest in an online game. If I want to play that way, I will plug in my console. Its got a better story, better graphics, and... when I feel like I've been cheated, I can turn it off and not lose anything. Also, I don't have to pay every month to use it.

I played on an on-line web site dedicated to D&D and Star Wars on-line message Board format RPG's for several years.
Before and even during that time I could find NO live Table games near me.

That web sites RPG's were (and still are) played in a post/reply message board format. So that live communication is not required. Most off game communication was made VIA E-mail. Or in the game section by posting comments preceded with the letters OOG. (OOG=Out of Game). They have on-line dice rolling too. You can play in an OD&D game, 2nd Ed, 3rd, and even 4th eventually once that comes out I am sure.

BTW: It is a completely FREE site too. Costs NOTHING to play and never has.

I was a DM, a player and even a moderator on the site. I was DM'ing 2-4 D&D games at one time, Co-DMing in other games, playing in 4 or 5 others, plus moderating on some of the City Boards. I probably spent upwards of 40-50 hours per week doing something related to that web site.

I even created my own little web site for posting game notes, maps and pictures, for players in my games.  That site still exists, though I almost never do anything with it. And since its on a free hosting site it is limited as to what can be done with it anyway. I cant even link to pictures from it.

When I started my own business in real life a couple of years ago, I quit all gaming cold turkey (And all RPG collecting too as many folks here know quite well) which was really not good for those who were counting on me to continue running my games, but I had to stop the games I was DMing. One of them was taken over by another Moderator at the site, but the other one simply ended mid-stride. I hated that, but when you start your own company free time is all but nill. At least for me it was and still is.

Prufrock wrote:So if online is the future, tell why you all do not just meet up in World of warcraft and game?  Isn't that what the full progression of 4E is.  How is it any different?  In fact, why do we not create the Acauem Guild in Wow and it would be very easy to get a qouta of folks to game.

There seems to be a blurring of the term "online RPG".  Some people think that means playing a video game loosely based on the fantasy genre online -- frankly, my reaction to that is "ick".  

What I do, and what I recommend, is to take a roleplaying game such as 1E, and change the inputs and outputs you normally use.  That's it, that's all.  Imagine Stephen Hawking or a blind guy playing D&D, if that helps...I'm sure the blind play as well, or better, than the rest of us.

Regarding dice, you can use a built-in random number generator, or trust your players and let them roll the dice at home.  Both work just fine.

Prufrock wrote:
deimos you indicated your coming to this years Gencon, I look forward to meeting you.  Perhaps you would like to sit in the gaming session with Killjoy, badmike, and KingofPain and myself?

Martin

That might be tough to do Martin.  Shrews and lemurs together in the same habitat?  Sounds like a recipe for disaster.  

Prufrock wrote:deimos you indicated your coming to this years Gencon, I look forward to meeting you.  Perhaps you would like to sit in the gaming session with Killjoy, badmike, and KingofPain and myself?

I did?  How'd I sneak that one past the wife?  I think it's unlikely I'll be able to attend, but if I can make it, I'd love to play with you guys, no question.

(I'm a little concerned that you people think I'm "remote" though...I'm in Toronto, Canada, a city of roughly 2 million.  I'm not Madagascar where the actual lemurs live, for those that weren't sure.)

Prufrock wrote:Sounds like a recipe of fun.  Although this year I do not plan on plastering my character's face into another characters ass.

Martin

all the places for the game are provisionally taken now. though me being me, i would prb make a special exception under the circumstances. i just dont like DMing too many people, spoils the way i like to do things.

the other provisional places are jeff and will - and IF brendon gets there.

Al