tdewey10 wrote:As devil's advocate I should note that the copyright holder not only has things like the right to prevent someone from duplicating the IP (i.e. no selling photocopies of ToEE) but rights in derivative products based on the IP. For example EGG/FM couldn't independently produce a Temple of Elemental Evil boardgame, movie, cardgame, play, yo-yo, action figure, comic, or etc. (Aside -- I think WoTC/Hasbro is brain dead for not co-marketing its products. It owns Magic and AD&D -- there should have been an AD&D CCG based on the magic system years ago -- thats the whole synergy thing. Similiarly instead of doing some random D&D movie it should have based it on existing IP e.g. ToEE or something in the FR)On the other hand, they could sell the original pre-cursor items (e.g. the original maps that TSR used to produce the map booklet, the original dungeon descriptions) unless of course they sold those to TSR in whatever contract existed between them for the production of ToEE.The 'art' idea is an interesting grey area -- IMHO I'd rather have a interesting dungeon map matted and framed on my wall then say many, many works of modern art. A recent well known example are Warhol's various works based on existing IP (campbell soup cans come to mind -- but also the monroe pictures). Of course if the map was just the same map -- no difference (via color/contrast -- think Warhol's Mao/Monroe portraits) it'd be hard to argue it was anything other than copying. On the other hand if it was done in artful way then there is an interesting argument for permitting it (after all we let Warhol abuse Campbell Soup's trademark and copyright).
bclarkie wrote:I am well aware of all the Copyright and IP issues involved. You are missing the joke. ExTSR is Frank Mentzer, the guy who drew the originals and pretty much wrote the entirety of the Temple of Elemental Evil(well at leats the t2-4 parts), as well as a host of other things for TSR back when it was still "TSR".
tdewey10 wrote:Oh I know he is - I just think his question was interesting and I'm a bit of a blowhard when it comes to legal issues.
On the other hand we have clear evidence that something similiar has been done in the past (i.e. Warhol's work).
JohnGaunt wrote:Interesting point. But is a hand-drawn map a violation of IP?
tdewey10 wrote:This of course brings up a whole nother subject. Why is it that in D&D collecting we don't (or at least I don't) do frames (e.g. sports collectibles). Think of a nice framed Tegel -- Orange booklet on the right Judges map unfolded center. Matted & etc. I'd certainly rather have that on my wall then someones sportsjersey under glass.
tdewey10 wrote: If he were to paint the map using oilpaints (a la Warhol's campbell soup cans and the painted dollars) maybe the medium itself with be sufficient to move it into fair use. I wish I were an IP lawyer so I could give you a better response but I'm not so there you go.
tdewey10 wrote:Depends on its use. For example if it were part of a collage
FormCritic wrote:So, just glue some dry macaroni around the edges and he's OK?
JohnGaunt wrote:Maybe in a dada-esque way . . . . . . what were we talking about again? Killer macaroni in ToEE?
bclarkie wrote:The poster above "ExTSR" is Frank Mentzer, the guy who drew the originals and pretty much wrote the entirety of the Temple of Elemental Evil(well at least the T2-4 parts), as well as a host of other things for TSR back when it was still "TSR".
JohnGaunt wrote:Perhaps if the map were a cake or a pastry . . .
tdewey10 wrote:I had only one copyright class in law school but I don't see a problem with copying the maps (as long as you own the module or you are copying to send to someone who you know owns the module) nor do I see a problem with reselling the module at some later date with the copied maps (something that I am doing right now on ebay with a different module that was also missing a map page when I bought it) -- as long, of course, that that is cleaer in the advert for the module. The only thing you can't do, AFAIK, is try to make a profit off of selling just the copied maps (e.g. someone can't go into the business of providing missing map or booklet pages). Arguably you could charge for actual copying costs -- but easiest and safest thing (and considering black and white copies cost what 2 cents) is to provide the copies for free.
