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Interesting eBay alert! TSR belt buckles
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ExTSR
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Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 9:54 am

Getting concerned.

One buyer states, re the Post on the most recent sales:

"Instead of a flower head on top it consist of two halfs with a bulb on top. It is almost made of a black material and most likely not pewter"

This does not seem original (1981-82).

.

Now, the reason I ask about the face is that the rest can be very easily duplicated, but the precise marks on the hair & beard would seem to be 'ground zero' for any short cuts... to finish quickly / good 'enough' (if a modern repro).

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cdenham
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Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 12:56 pm

ExTSR wrote in Interesting eBay alert! TSR belt buckles:Getting concerned.

One buyer states, re the Post on the most recent sales:

"Instead of a flower head on top it consist of two halfs with a bulb on top. It is almost made of a black material and most likely not pewter"

This does not seem original (1981-82).

.

Now, the reason I ask about the face is that the rest can be very easily duplicated, but the precise marks on the hair & beard would seem to be 'ground zero' for any short cuts... to finish quickly / good 'enough' (if a modern repro).

The facial features on my *old* one are so worn an accurate comparison is difficult.

However, looking at the posts on the *old* and *new* one shows considerable differences on closer inspection. The *old* appears to have the petals. The *new* one is a blob of metal and the whole post appears to be an insert or addon piece. The *old* one appears to more of a complete assembly.

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cdenham
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Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 1:06 pm

I selected several of the more noticeable dots on the front background and compared one to the other and they appear to match exactly.

There is a very obvious color difference between the two. The new one almost has a brushed aluminum color (I don't believe it is aluminum. Just a reference.)

The old one also seems to weigh a little bit more than the new one. My digital scale just kicked the bucket so I can't weigh them to be sure.

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faro
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Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 1:24 pm

cdenham wrote in Interesting eBay alert! TSR belt buckles:The old one also seems to weigh a little bit more than the new one. My digital scale just kicked the bucket so I can't weigh them to be sure.

Thanks again for the additional details. Hrmm... Post office time? :)
The difference due to the loop construction shouldn't be too huge.

The new post in place of the peg is not good to see. At best that would presumably have to be a fix on a late batch at Bergamot (although I don't see why their master should have broken that badly if I'm understanding right...). At worst, a bodge for a recast? Anyone with better casting/recasting/minis knowledge care to add their 02c, please.

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muaddib5
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Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 1:21 am

My buckle should be here shortly. The seller's current auction consists of 11 sold and 12 remaining for a total of 23. His last batch (which I got mine from) was 30 total. Quick math, that's 53 PLUS the 13 he sold earlier. 66 seems to be a lot. No reply from Bergamot as of yet.

This is an old post from 2007. Maybe Frank can authenticate this person as an employee of TSR?

Maria MacIntyre said:
"I worked for TSR Hobbies Inc., in 1982 and 1983. During that time, the Gygax and Blume officers of the company thought it would be a good idea to give solid brass belt buckles crafted by Bergamont Brass (they made a lot of TSR's miniatures) that said "TSR The Game Wizards" on them as rewards for good work. Not many of them were made by Bergamont Brass because they were made specifically for TSR (This is my memory anyway, it's been a long time )
Anyway, I just found the buckles they gave me in a drawer. I have three of them. I am wondering if anyone would be interested in buying them?
I checked ebay and they had all kinds of D&D stuff but no TSR belt buckles.
Is this something anyone would be interested in and if you think it is, would you be able to tell me where I would put them up for sale? I am checking some other DnD sites too.
Thanks much,
Maria"

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faro
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Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 5:44 am

muaddib5 wrote in Interesting eBay alert! TSR belt buckles:My buckle should be here shortly. The seller's current auction consists of 11 sold and 12 remaining for a total of 23. His last batch (which I got mine from) was 30 total. Quick math, that's 53 PLUS the 13 he sold earlier. 66 seems to be a lot.

From previous auctions over 2+ years you'd need to add a considerable number to that. I haven't been keeping tabs properly but there were 40+ right at the start (my initial purchases plus maybe one or two others and then two batches of sales when he returned with more, unexpectedly...) and there have been other auctions since. So, another 50-100, anyhow?

"7.3 ORGANIZING THE PARTY: Always have a keg, even if it's BYOB...
7.4 TAKING THE GAME SERIOUSLY: Don't"

JasonZavoda
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Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 11:12 am

I wonder if these are a bunch of buckles damaged in production. Just the buckle without the metal loop and with a broken or miscast peg. Hell of a lot easier and cheaper to drill out a base and weld a new peg and add a new metal belt loop. How much space would a hundred buckles take up? A box the size of a large flat rate priority box? I can see someone salvaging a bunch of factory reject buckles a lot more readily than someone recasting these.

EDITED: K is a kool letter but it is still a misspelling.

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Last edited by JasonZavoda on Mon May 04, 2015 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Lazerrus
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Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 3:06 pm

Well this is most disappointing. I started to wonder how he had so many to sell as it looks like he has sold out and reposted another batch. Wonder if this qualifies for reporting to ebay?

ExTSR
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Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 3:56 pm

JasonZavoda wrote in Interesting eBay alert! TSR belt buckles:I wonder if these are a bunch of buckles damaged in production. Just the buckle without the metal loop and with a broken or miscast peg.

I'm now leaning this way.

21 months on eB, deals in belt buckles, all sales Private...
Different style belt loop, variant pegs...

btw, fwiw and for anyone who has 'em:
The original double-lizard buckles from the mid-'70s were not from Bergamot, and had problems with the pegs breaking off.
If you have one, be careful about wearing it too much, or too tightly; the peg may break.

F

muaddib5
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Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 5:10 pm

Mine arrived in the mail today. Looks exactly like the pictures of all of the others purchased from this seller. Down to the non-flower post on the back of the buckle and non-crimped belt loop. The buckle weighs approximately 2.7 ounces. I find it interesting that the package was sent from an address in Santa Ana, CA and not Gladewater, TX. Also, the name on the paypal account is listed on the return address, not the name on the ebay account.

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misterspock
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Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 7:55 pm

muaddib5 wrote in Interesting eBay alert! TSR belt buckles:Mine arrived in the mail today. Looks exactly like the pictures of all of the others purchased from this seller. Down to the non-flower post on the back of the buckle and non-crimped belt loop. The buckle weighs approximately 2.7 ounces. I find it interesting that the package was sent from an address in Santa Ana, CA and not Gladewater, TX. Also, the name on the paypal account is listed on the return address, not the name on the ebay account.

So the seller's name "Michael Pearson" on Ebay is not the person who shipped it to you? and he/she shipped from a different state altogether? I wonder if the actual seller is using some family/friend's ebay account? ... Maybe we should locate "Michael Pearson" in Garland TX and ask for a comment :wink:

edit... meant Gladewater, not Garland..

Last edited by misterspock on Mon May 04, 2015 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cdenham
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Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 8:34 pm

I received my two latest ones today, also from Santa Ana, CA.

Knowing to look at the posts this time, I examined each of the 4 that I have. One curious thing is that the *original* part of the post, the part that has the petals, is cut off at a different height. I have one that is quiet noticeably taller than the others. By this, I mean I have two that are cut off just at the point the petal stops and the stem starts. I have one that shows a bit of the stem and I have one that shows considerably more of the petal stem. The final post height appears to be very close to the same however.

Maybe these are rejects that have been repaired.

Out of curiosity, how many of these were originally produced? I have no idea how many employees TSR had at the time nor how many would have actually received buckles.

Carpe DM!

cdenham
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Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 8:44 pm

Also, the 2 latest additions arrived in identical white boxes and white, fuzzy packing as the ones I picked up a couple of years ago. The only difference is the two latest were also sealed in plastic.

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muaddib5
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Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 11:12 pm

cdenham wrote in Interesting eBay alert! TSR belt buckles:Also, the 2 latest additions arrived in identical white boxes and white, fuzzy packing as the ones I picked up a couple of years ago. The only difference is the two latest were also sealed in plastic.

Mine was the same when it arrived today. White, plain jewelry style box with white "fuzzy" material in the box. It's wrapped in a newer plastic bag. I've seen similar protectors used with collectable cards.

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Lazerrus
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Posted: Wed May 06, 2015 10:22 am

Same as the one I got. White box with cotton filler and the buckle was is in a resealable bag.

Lazerrus
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Posted: Wed May 06, 2015 10:26 am

I am wondering if this guy cast a mold of an original with a Brocken peg and then fixed it and is now casting them. If anyone has purchased two of these are they identical? If counterfeited they should have the same markings right?

misterspock
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Posted: Wed May 06, 2015 11:00 am

I think this is seller is just playing everyone. I hope it's not a case of stolen ID used to create this ebay account ... (ie.."please don't open a dispute")
The communication from him/her doesn't come across as legit. Just curious if the seller further responded to anyone's emails/pm's beyond these?

muaddib5 wrote in Interesting Items Currently on eBay:
faro wrote in Interesting Items Currently on eBay:Still telling context-sensitive truths, then? :)
("13 in this box in my hand"?)
I was under the impression that someone else was holding stock for them, too, to explain the weasel-wording received here.

Somewhat miffed about that gamesmanship as I paid what would've been a fair price first-time around - instead of haggling for a cheap deal - for the number they stated they had left, on the basis that there were no more. Then some months later, those dozens of others appeared...

Interesting TSR belt buckle developments are afoot. So it's been five days and the buckle hasn't shipped yet. I sent an eBay message to the seller asking if the buckle had shipped and his reply was, "When did you order". Yikes, not a good start. So, I provided the information and the item number and the seller's second reply, "Takes time to send stuff have patience and fart itll make you fill better" 8O. Interesting message for a seller to send a buyer.

So the eBay ID for the seller I purchased from is (pearsonmichael) who's been a member since August 4th, 2013 (with 100% positive feedback). The auction I bought my buckle from had 30 available 8O . He has another TSR buckle auction going right now with "more then 10 available" with 10 of those sold.

The contact information (via PayPal) when I sent payment was to Joe Pendleton (verified) listing a phone number with a (903) area code. Doing a Google search, that number list's to a business in Winona Texas named Benches and More. I called the number and it rang but went to voice mail and the box isn't set up.

Is this the same eBay seller others have bought buckles from? If so, how many does this guy have? Or is there a possibility, do to the sheer numbers he's selling, that the buckles are being fabricated and sold as "new old stock"?

faro wrote in Interesting Items Currently on eBay:
muaddib5 wrote in Interesting Items Currently on eBay:The contact information (via PayPal) when I sent payment was to Joe Pendleton (verified) listing a phone number with a (903) area code. Doing a Google search, that number list's to a business in Winona Texas named Benches and More. I called the number and it rang but went to voice mail and the box isn't set up.

Yes; same (903) area code/personal details/business link from my payment back in August, 31st 2013 ($876 --- won't say how few buckles that was when they gave the impression that was the entire remainder stock, as I've been in such a position before when buying what little was left of TSR's stock from Aaron/NKG).

At least y'all shouldn't be caught out by messages out of the blue several months later along the lines of "Apparently he has plenty buckles and didn't want to sell me all the ones he had before but now as the holidays are approaching, he has asked me to help him out." this time around. :)
n.b. Only that particular buckle in pewter; none of the others.
Quite a jump from their very first "Hi I think we have 6 to 7 more of these buckles".

muaddib5 wrote in Interesting Items Currently on eBay: Here's the seller's latest message, "You need to get laid go eat some shit and fuck a fat women" 8O .
ROFL, I don't think I'm getting my buckle!

muaddib5 wrote in Interesting Items Currently on eBay:
dbartman wrote in Interesting Items Currently on eBay:A case could be made that this seller is being deceptive, and is actually either making these belt buckles, or having someone produce them for him. I say this having bought a couple of them. They look really good, but there are some subtle differences between the ones I purchased, and ones that I seen with some age on them, including the ones he has pictured. I'm beginning to think that these could be forgeries.

The biggest visual difference I noticed, other than how "new" they are, is in the wire diameter used for the loop. The originals all seem to have a larger wire diameter, at least the ones I have been exposed to.

I think the seller needs to be confronted on this. Bergamot Brass Casting is definitely a good source to contact, but it could be some Chinese company too.

Most recient message from the seller, "I am very sorry someone hacked our ebay account and sent a message to you. We can ship your order tomorrow I have been sick. I don't know who sent you that message but it was not me. So hopefully everything is ok. And please don't open a dispute."

Quite the quick turn-around!

Lazerrus
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Posted: Wed May 06, 2015 11:34 am

I have a question. Does WOTC own the copyright to the old TSR logos? If so then they may want to know about this. If this guy is faking these buckles then who knows what's next.

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