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grodog
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Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:20 pm

aia wrote in Tractics questions:...then under TSR:

4) white boxed set (GK logo)
5) white boxed set (lizardman logo) - to be confirmed, i dont remember having seen one of them...
6) white boxed set (wizard logo)

One of my TSR sets is shrinked and has a die inside it (it's out-dented the lid some), but I don't recall which logo's on there. Will have to check!

Allan.

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ExTSR
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Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:35 pm

I believe the glossy black is first, in part since it matches wargames they made, all in early years and long before moving to Maine.

aia
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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:59 am

Bump!

aia
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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:14 am

ok, further to the link to this old topic, i move the discussion here!

Beck to the original question: what are the versions of this game and in which sequence?

Apparently, it is commonly agreed that we'd have

1. Guidon games black box

2. TSR woodgrain box (GK logo)

3. TSR white box (wizard logo, dunno if the is also a version with lizarman logo...)

To this, i submit to your opinion another version of a "texture plain" box... as already told you, the explanations for the presence of this version are basically two (and Occam rules here!):

a. shortage of black boxes at Guidon games and replacement with others available

b. buyer who damaged the original box and replaced it by his own

Hereby some pics

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aia
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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:17 am

Now, keeping up posting the pics, we come to the most relevant part: in the box i found a label, exactly like those put on the black boxes... it is a label because there is glue on the back of it!

This is a detail which makes me think that this box is coming from Guidon... Otherwise i do not find an explanation for the presence of the label...

Again, some piccies!

I am lookingo forward to hearing your thoughts!

ciaooo

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muaddib5
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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:57 am

aia wrote in Tractics questions:Now, keeping up posting the pics, we come to the most relevant part: in the box i found a label, exactly like those put on the black boxes... it is a label because there is glue on the back of it!

This is a detail which makes me think that this box is coming from Guidon... Otherwise i do not find an explanation for the presence of the label...

Again, some piccies!

I am lookingo forward to hearing your thoughts!

ciaooo

Wow. I don't remember ever seeing another example like that. I have the black box version and I've seen the woodgrain and white box. I like your theory that it's a replacement box or Guidon Games ran out and had to use whatever they could source.

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dbartman
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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:48 pm

To my knowledge, there wasn't any glue pre-applied to the labels, so if it has glue residue, then the label was applied to something originally. It also looks like it was peeled off of a box from the bend lines. This would lean more towards it being removed from another 1st print Guidon box and stuck in the new box, with the original contents. The black boxes have a rather smooth finish, so the label could probably be peeled of fairly easily, especially if a little steam or moisture was applied, or it wasn't glued well to the box.

I would think that it would be more plausible that this is a owner replacement box than something that was shipped from Guidon games as a replacement, especially since there haven't been any examples uncovered thus far like this. Seems unlikely they would have done that, but an owner-replaced box was very common with many of the boxed sets from this era.

aia
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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:23 pm

For the sake of completeness: the label is in near mint condition... I find it difficult to assume it was already glued and eventually detached. The glue on the back of the label is exactly what was on old stamps (you have to wet it and then it sticks)...
Again, both options are plausible but i find rather difficult that someone has somehow peeled off the label leaving it in pristine condition just to put it within another box...
Another option to consider is that the owner got his black box some how damaged, he bought a replacment box and complained to Guidon... The result is that he got a label from the publisher as a "refund" for the damage suffered...

Mars
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:02 pm

The Guidon Games sets had multiple printings. The 1st prints had some errors in the books and these sets often come with errata sheets. 2nd prints then incorporated the changes. You could check if the books are 1st or 2nd prints.

aia
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:45 pm

Mars wrote in Tractics questions:The Guidon Games sets had multiple printings. The 1st prints had some errors in the books and these sets often come with errata sheets. 2nd prints then incorporated the changes. You could check if the books are 1st or 2nd prints.

How can i understand the print run?

Mars
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:41 pm

Check a couple of errata to see if they are changed or not.
For example:

Book 1, Page 18, paragraph 2: Turret stabilization keeps the turret pointing towards the target regardless of movement on the part of the attacker "or the target" and thus increases accuracy.
* Are the words "or the target" in your copy or not?

Book 2, page 11 under Rifle, Assault. Does it include the line "Weapon capable of full automatic fire only is the Soviet AK47 introduced in 1956." or "Assault rifles can fire semi-automatic or full automatic. Automatic weapons Bonus applies only when firing full automatic."?

aia
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Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:16 am

Thanks Mark! Everytime you write such an info i am impressed... How do you get all these details? Afaik there is no similar acaeum-style web references for Tractics in this case! (Or at least, i am unable to find them!)

I will check the details!

Mars
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:32 pm

aia wrote in Tractics questions:Thanks Mark! Everytime you write such an info i am impressed... How do you get all these details? Afaik there is no similar acaeum-style web references for Tractics in this case! (Or at least, i am unable to find them!)

I will check the details!

I was collecting Guidon Games stuff years ago and at one point owned 3 of the black box sets so did some comparisons. I kept a first print with the errata sheets - the 2nd print books (still in a black box) were updated with the corrections.

So if Book 1 contains "or the target" its probably a 1st print, etc.

aia
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:20 am

Mars wrote in Tractics questions:Check a couple of errata to see if they are changed or not.
For example:

Book 1, Page 18, paragraph 2: Turret stabilization keeps the turret pointing towards the target regardless of movement on the part of the attacker "or the target" and thus increases accuracy.
* Are the words "or the target" in your copy or not?

Book 2, page 11 under Rifle, Assault. Does it include the line "Weapon capable of full automatic fire only is the Soviet AK47 introduced in 1956." or "Assault rifles can fire semi-automatic or full automatic. Automatic weapons Bonus applies only when firing full automatic."?

Ahh, sorry!

Question nr 1: "on the target" is present

Question nr 2: the first sentence, the one with the AK47

What printing is this?

Thanks and ciaooo

Mars
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Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:07 pm

The books should then be 1st print.

aia
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Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:53 pm

Thanks Mark!

MegaTherion
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Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:14 am

Resurrecting an old topic here.

I have a 1st Print I believe. Tannish Whitish (lol) box. GK Logo. 1975 Copyright inside rulebooks. Volume 1 and 3 errata sheets. 19 Pull out sheets

My questions are this...how many pull out sheets were there in total? I have 19 numbered

And were there errata sheets for each volume? I'm sure there was I just have sheets for volumes one and three

Thanks

Last edited by MegaTherion on Mon Sep 05, 2022 9:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

aia
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 1:43 am

rhw2010 wrote in Tractics questions:Resurrecting an old topic here.

I have a 1st Print I believe. Tannish Whitish (lol) box. GK Logo. 1975 Copyright inside rulebooks. Volume 1 and 3 errata sheets. 19 Pull out sheets

My questions are this...how many pull out sheets were there in total? I have 19 numbered

And were there errata sheets for each volume? I'm sure there was I just have sheets for volumes one and three

Thanks

Any TSR box results not to be a 1st print. It should be a 3rd, but again i am confused as i thought the whitebox was only with lizard logo...

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