D&D and the need for more diversity • Page 2 • Collecting General • The Acaeum

The Acaeum Forums • Collecting General

D&D and the need for more diversity
	Page 2 of 2 • 1, 2

Author

TheHistorian
Sage Collector

Posts: 2589
Joined: Aug 02, 2006
Last Visit: Mar 11, 2023
Location: Seattle, WA

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:56 am

If you're on board with evolution, and are willing to stretch the definition back far enough into the historical record, then we're all African-otherregionians.

Great, we're all the same. Next topic!

Areas of interest/knowledge: Harn, WFRP, Ars Magica, anything BRP based such as CoC, Runequest, Pendragon and all their related games

FormCritic
Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6720
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
Last Visit: Sep 30, 2022

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:32 am

I think that African-American is a hopelessly clunky term and I feel silly using it.

However, if a given group decides they like to be called something it seems most polite to address them as requested.

(As I recall, in the book Stand on Zanzibar, the term is shortened to "Afram," which strikes me as much more practical.)

"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

FormCritic
Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6720
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
Last Visit: Sep 30, 2022

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:46 am

It has always been my impression that RPG's are great vehicles for stretching the mind and exposing people to history and world cultures. In fact, incorporating new cultures and cultural perspecives has long been regarded as an important element in innovation and originality in adventure design.

Never mind that these mixtures make no sense. One of the delightful quirks of most D&D campaigns is that all periods of world history tend to be mashed together in most game settings, with cultural elements stirred in as well. This innocent blending of anachronisms is part of the charm of D&D.

That's why DRAGON could publish an article about the samurai as a character class...and these Japanese warriors could quite cheerfully appear in your next game session alongside paladins from Germany, assassins from the Near East, Welsh longbowmen, Merlin the magician, Tiberius Magnus the Roman centurion, Gloria the spandex and thong rogue, a fighter named Axshun Jaxson and a one-eyed dwarf barbarian from Utterstupidia who drives a chariot.

In fact...isn't this what the new Dugeon Crawl Classics RPG is supposed to be all about?

This sort of mix is so common that TSR actually published campaign books to show you how to run historically and culturally accurate campaigns in various settings.

"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

sauromatian
Sage Collector

Posts: 2554
Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Last Visit: Jan 06, 2024
Location: Far Harad, Texas

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:01 am

FormCritic wrote:I haven't done any market research. Are African Americans writing or reading fantasy literature these days? Do they buy books? Is there an African American fantasy literature tradition?

I suspect that most fantasy art is directed at caucasians because most of the customers are...gasp...caucasians.

One thing I do know: Non-European RPG settings do not sell well in comparison to straight up depictions of medieval fantasy Europe. Cover art that depicts (for instance) an Arabian Nights theme is a good way to doom your publication to a niche of a niche market.

The African Excalibur: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeelen
The Dungeon of Pasha Cada, better known as Dungeon!
Nekkid Frazetta chicks with his wife's body & ethnic faces
Narnia vs. Calormen in a fictionalized Caucasus
African-type swords in otherwise European-based fantasy illustration (Central African swords were much broader & thicker than others. Interpret as you wish.)

But I digress. Political correctness from both left & right has been a part of the game from the beginning. The Cleric class, to accommodate Christianity. The Witch class, planned as the feminine of Wizard. Magic items that change a PC's gender. Racial bonus & animosity charts. The Satanism scare. Then we get to the '90s.

Beyondthebreach
Verbose Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 1709
Joined: Feb 04, 2004
Last Visit: Aug 23, 2016
Location: Chandler, AZ

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:42 pm

There really isn't anything to see here . . . just a few days ago at work, one of my technicians asked me if I heard about all the talk regarding racial diversity in D&D. Actually, I had, since I'd read this thread (usally I am in the dark on such matters) but I found it hilarious. There really isn't "all this talk" - it's just one guy who wrote a "blog-type" article. This happens all the time in our society - a person or small group of persons - write/remark on something, get a little bit of press, and all of a sudden it is "Americans are questioning high cholesterol content in school lunches" or other such nonsense.

"Americans" or "people" don't really care - no one cares - about the perception of racial diversity in D&D or how unhealty Mcdonalds food is or if Children's television is leading to bullying in school or any of that shit. All you got to do is get enough of a buzz so that most of the sheep out there think it actually is an issue and you've accomplished your goal. It's what the "news" is all about.

"Gleemonex makes it feel like it's seventy-two degrees in your head... all... the... time! "

Chucho68
Prolific Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 573
Joined: Jan 02, 2011
Last Visit: Aug 12, 2022
Location: PA

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:59 pm

Gnat the Beggar wrote:I wonder how many Haitians, Porto Ricans and Cubans who live in the USA use the term African American to others when referencing themselves?

My guess is that there isn't one, here or there.

Enough with the typecasting, social profiling or whatever. We all cry the same, sh*t the same and die the same, from the Pope to the lowly ant. Let's just try to do good while trying to be happy.

Hector.

Habent sua fata libelli

nn
Prolific Collector

Posts: 160
Joined: Dec 07, 2002
Last Visit: Feb 04, 2021

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:54 pm

I agree with the article. Illustrations in rpgs of humanity should in general be racially diverse.

Just dont give them stupid spiky armour.

sauromatian
Sage Collector

Posts: 2554
Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Last Visit: Jan 06, 2024
Location: Far Harad, Texas

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:13 am

Beyondthebreach wrote:"Americans" or "people" don't really care - no one cares - about the perception of racial diversity in D&D or how unhealty Mcdonalds food is or if Children's television is leading to bullying in school or any of that shit. All you got to do is get enough of a buzz so that most of the sheep out there think it actually is an issue and you've accomplished your goal. It's what the "news" is all about.

Wait a minute.. that's characteristic Gnome rhetoric. You're one of the hated Gnome people, I can tell! You're trying to perpetuate centuries of oppression by burying the cruel history of your people's hate crimes, the genocide which drove my people to this plane of existence. We shall overcome, friend, & when that happens Gnome blood shall flow!!!!!

bbarsh
Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3865
Joined: Feb 21, 2004
Last Visit: Jul 20, 2023
Location: Milford, Michigan

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:30 pm

I generally prefer the term "American" when describing citizens of this country. I never refer to myself as a German-American or polish-American even though my mother was born in Germany and my grandparents (paternal) both came over from Poland. I am an American. And I thank god for that all the time.

And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

Beyondthebreach
Verbose Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 1709
Joined: Feb 04, 2004
Last Visit: Aug 23, 2016
Location: Chandler, AZ

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:35 pm

Not sure about the last two posts . . . wonder if mine was misunderstood.

"Americans"

"People"

"Scientists"

"Researchers"

"New Yorkers"

"Moms"

I was using quotes to show that they were buzz words describing a group and the opinions of that group . . . not making any statements beyond that. For instance, an article might say "Americans are against violence in schools" or it might say "scientists agree that eating poisonous food is bad for you." or "moms think that feeding your children tends to keep them alive."

"Gleemonex makes it feel like it's seventy-two degrees in your head... all... the... time! "

SimperingToad
Verbose Collector

Posts: 1382
Joined: Nov 03, 2008
Last Visit: Apr 07, 2026
Location: My Pad

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:55 pm

The people screaming the loudest about 'diversity' are the ones who need to be more diverse in their narrow mindset and realize that things happening in the world do not always require their presence.

Art of dragons doing what dragons do. Site of a friend. Dragonstuff

sauromatian
Sage Collector

Posts: 2554
Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Last Visit: Jan 06, 2024
Location: Far Harad, Texas

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:26 am

Beyondthebreach wrote:Not sure about the last two posts . . . wonder if mine was misunderstood.

It wasn't misunderstood, it was just very, very dull.

Beyondthebreach
Verbose Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 1709
Joined: Feb 04, 2004
Last Visit: Aug 23, 2016
Location: Chandler, AZ

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:04 pm

sauromatian wrote:
Beyondthebreach wrote:Not sure about the last two posts . . . wonder if mine was misunderstood.

It wasn't misunderstood, it was just very, very dull.

Well, I would say that it was just "very dull" and not "very, very dull". Hard to tell though . . . some people apply more weight to "very" than do others. I'd suspect that a few here would go so far as to call it "very, very, very, very dull".

Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers - must have touched upon some secret sore spot of yours. I hope I didn't hurt your feelings too much.

"Gleemonex makes it feel like it's seventy-two degrees in your head... all... the... time! "

clangador
Prolific Collector

Posts: 238
Joined: Nov 14, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 08, 2017
Location: Tacoma, WA

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:23 pm

Nogrod wrote:This should make for a lively thread.

boingboing.net/2012/04/11/call-for-dive ... -rule.html

And the original article from tor.com

tor.com/blogs/2012/04/a-modest-proposal ... nd-dragons

That is all.

Nogrod

Is this a joke?

If not, it should be.

~Clangador
---------------

Black Blade Publishing imprint of OSRIC is not only the most definitive printing of OSRIC to date, but also the single greatest resource for old school gamers since the three original hardbacks written by E. Gary Gygax.

sauromatian
Sage Collector

Posts: 2554
Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Last Visit: Jan 06, 2024
Location: Far Harad, Texas

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:27 am

Beyondthebreach wrote:Well, I would say that it was just "very dull" and not "very, very dull". Hard to tell though . . . some people apply more weight to "very" than do others. I'd suspect that a few here would go so far as to call it "very, very, very, very dull". Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers - must have touched upon some secret sore spot of yours. I hope I didn't hurt your feelings too much.

Yes I am traumatized by excessive obviousness. That is, your comments are the common-sense conclusions that everyone here probably already agrees with. But this thread exists make fun of the surreal, bizarre, ridiculous, & plain old nonsense of political correctness. Get with the program & say something stupid.

Chainsaw
Prolific Collector

Posts: 214
Joined: May 22, 2011
Last Visit: Jun 29, 2025

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:22 pm

Nogrod wrote:boingboing.net/2012/04/11/call-for-dive ... -rule.html

And the original article from tor.com

tor.com/blogs/2012/04/a-modest-proposal ... nd-dragons

I agree wholeheartedly, but would take this one step further and recommend that we ban all books (and movies) not conforming to a perfectly equal representation* of every possible ethnicity, religious affiliation and sexual orientation. :wink:

* Failing that, at least an appropriate, fair mix as determined by a Vanguard of the Intellectual Elite.

The Acaeum Forums • Collecting General

Page 2 of 2 • 1, 2