While I do agree that taking pictures and data without asking is certainly Rude as heck, and IMO a very bad idea at best, and outright stealing at worst... (I do not agree that Copyright violations are involved) .

dhunton wrote:We publish the Ultimate Unofficial Collector's Guide to D&D (usually, the UUCG). The Acaeum has been one of our many reference sources, and we have spent a lot of time lurking on the forums.

From this wording it looks like they have been taking information for a LONG time.
Yes, IMO that is the exact wrong way to have gone about this...
Still; I think many of you are missing the big picture here.

For the statements below; I am putting past research nabbing aside.

It looks to me like the Acaeum member (YES he/she IS a member here too) who made the original post in this thread IS asking for help from other more knowledgable Acaeum members on specific items for a book that will (I assume) list MANY main stream colectables and old school RPG items.
Seems to me that is what this forum and this site are for.
Am I way off base with that line of thinking?
If I am way off base, then please educate me what this place really is for.
Because if I am way of base, then I joined this forum as a member for the wrong reasons myself.

I do not understand the anger at all.
Yes, they are at fault for not asking for the help instead of simply taking what they could and staying in the shadows lurking about for any infomation they could gleen for profits...
If this group had simply reported this on the forums as a research project for the book, Acaeum members would have been falling over themselves to try to help out.
Including some of those above who are most outspoken for the groups head on a platter...


BTW: I sent a PM asking what OP wants to know about the Fighters Wheel... no response.
Perhaps we have managed to run OP off...
Or perhaps they have returned to the shadows lurking after having being bashed after coming forth above.
It is indeed often much safer in the shadows.

Gnat the Beggar wrote:While I do agree that simply taking pictures and data without asking is simply a bad idea at best, and outright stealing at worst... (I do not agree that Copyright violations are involved) .

Still; I think many of you are missing the big picture here.

For the statements below; I am putting past research nabbing aside.

It looks to me like the Acaeum member (YES he/she IS a member here too) who made the original post in this thread IS asking for help from other more knowledgable Acaeum members on specific items for a book that will (I assume) list MANY main stream colectables and old school RPG items.
Seems to me that is what this forum and this site are for.
Am I way off base with that line of thinking?
If I am way off base, then please educate me what this place really is for.
Because if I am way of base, then I joined this forum as a member for the wrong reasons myself.

I do not understand the anger at all.

BTW: I sent a PM asking what OP wants to know about the Fighters Wheel... no response.
Perhaps we have run OP off...

This site is for people to freely share information about a hobby we love, not to have that information stolen and used by someone SELLING a book of that information with or without accreditation.

Basicly it is just freaking wrong, especially among a small community, to steal information and claim it for yourself. Fine to ask for help here, the mark of a complete scumbag to simply lurk on the site and steal that information.

Gnat you probably havent been burned. I worked for years on a huge index project, had someone take my name off of it and put it on their website as their work, and get pissed at me for gettting the site shut down (the fact that they also stole the info I sold to Dragon mag helped me shut them down). I dont care if someone puts my work on their website as long as they say where they got it from and dont try to take it for themselves .

Having some scumbag announce that they've pillaged this site for information and try to sell it, pisses me off. Not my work here I'm certain, but it pisses me off none the less, so that is where the anger from me comes from.

Gnat the Beggar wrote:Jason, I have never published anything that is copyrightable in that sense, but I have had copyright issues in Land Surveying before.
Another firm was heading up a comercial construction project that we were also working on.
As such they had need of our electronic files to use our data to make designs fit with our work.

In order to gain accees to our electronic files they SIGNED an agreement with our company NOT to change any of our electronic files or release them or copies of them to any other parties.

They changed several things on a drawing and not only released it to another party (The city developement committee)  but SIGNED the drawing as if it was their work and yet they also had the stupidity to keep MY RPLS Seal and our companies logo on the drawing.
THEN THEY Filed it as if it was still OUR companies work to the City.
Thankfully, I had great contacts and friends at the time and one of them called me to ask about it.
That company is no longer in business.
Though that instance was only a small portion of why.

Yes, I can understand why such a thing would rip yer gut out.
And I agree they screwed the pooch on this one by the methods they uesed and by not asking first.
Asking first would have changed EVERYTHING.
THAT is one of my main points Jason.

This time... now... THEY ARE ASKING...
Or were...

Gnat, I'm fine with them asking, but this guy needs a kick in the balls to let him know what he should already know, you don't steal someone elses work, and taking without asking is stealing.

If this bugger has gone home because he doesn't like being told that stealing is wrong, then screw him.

I would like to address the issue of our book's use of information from The Acaeum.

Like any published work (book, magazine or website), The Acaeum's information can be used as reference, as long as it is included in the bibliography of the book referencing it. Any direct quotes must be credited, but we don't use those. Our first versions of the first two volumes left out the bibliography. The revised version will include them, as will all future volumes going forward (we rushed a bit to get these to press for GenCon, which is why the delay on the next volumes, we wanted to update the first two, correcting some typos, adding in the bibliography, etc).

We have not taken photographs from any website and used them in our book. ALL graphics used in our book were scanned by us personally, or by others who own the products (they're listed in the credits). Which is the reason that I posted here -- as I said, the person who provided us many of the pictures in our first two volumes is unable to help with scans for the current volume.

Our online sources are numerous, but most of you probably know all of those. The reason for publishing a book like this is that people want physical copies of information, not just online. In addition, The Acaeum stops at a certain point (iirc, the end of 1st Edition), whereas our books will continue through the end of 3.5.

In addition, Jim Hunton has been playing and collecting since 1974, so his memories form a strong basis for the book, not just what has been collected elsewhere, such as The Acaeum. If you want to see pictures of our personal library, see here. The link is to a slide show, but if you go to the full album, you can see the comments on how big each bookcase pictured actually is.

If you want to talk to Debbie or Jim, feel free to PM here, email at gamersrule@usa.com or see us at Origins in our booth, or running for the RPGA at GenCon. If you really want to talk via phone, send us a note, and we'll send you our phone number.


Debbie Hunton

FormCritic wrote:
As long as the courtesy of attributions and the requirements of footnoting are followed, there should be few real objections.

Exactly.

I like a value-rich discussion.
It's funny how much of our world is exchange-based.
<wink> for all the guardians in here, who are asking for respect from the exchangers.

I believe the Acaeum's still establishing its legacy. For many years to come.