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The history of german D&D/AD&D as I know it
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Post Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:01 am 
 

blackdougal wrote in The history of german D&D/AD&D as I know it:Got it! Honestly, I wasn't even sure about SGA3. I don't think I've ever seen one.


Just got a copy of german SGA3 still in shrinkwrap. Games-In in Munich still sells these. 20 Euro is good price, I think.

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:04 am 
 

Yesterday, I found an entry regarding FSV, the company producing German D&D in the 80ies. It was officially registered on Dec. 1, 1983, and the registration was deleted on Jul. 28, 1993. So, it was around as a defunct company several years after they stopped producing D&D, in 1988 AFAICT. According to some newspaper articles, Hans W. Jany took over the mother company ASS AG in 1982 "in a lightning attack" and tried to have it financially recovered. This ended, as told, with him forced to leave and getting convicted for damaging the company financially (and trying to manipulate the stock market). This should have been around 1988 as well. So I guess that the "fate" of FSV was closely linked to his person. Apparently, the mother company was on the brink of bankruptcy then already, but held on until 1996 when it finally failed. At that point, the ASS AG had 130 people employed.

Hans W. Jany is reported to have tried his hand as a real estate agent in Eastern Germany in the early 90ies, just after the reunion. This special situation attracted all manners of people trying to make a profit there.

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Post Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:51 am 
 

An old newspaper article (weekly news magazine "Der Spiegel",  issue 7/1984, after the Nuremberg games fair) states that the print run of "Drache" was 10.000 copies, at 4 D-Mark a copy, and was to be issued quarterly.
The ASS sales agent calculated a sales volume of three million D-Mark in 1984 alone. Of course, it is impossible to say if that was realized. I think it was quite optimistic, as it is stated that in 1983, D&D in the USA had a sales volumes of 30 million Dollar. This amount would be about 75 million D-Mark at the average exchange rate of that time. 1/25 of the US sales in the first year seems a bit optimistic.

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:41 pm 
 

Not quite D&D, but TSR-related: In the late 70ies, Parker Brothers produced the board game Dungeon! in german, under the name "Verlies", literally meaning Dungeon in german. It was republished in 1985 by ASS AG (no surprise there) under the title "Im Drachen-Labyrinth" (in the labyrinth of the dragon).

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Post Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:16 pm 
 

stebehil wrote in The history of german D&D/AD&D as I know it:kuronons shot me a question about the jigsaws we discussed earlier and added the FSV stock numbers. He has posted this here:
Kuronons': D&D jigsaw puzzles definitive list
Apparently, the classic Elmore dragon from the 83 basic box has 8548/3, and the rainbow dragon has 8561/6. Now, his question was as to the publication date of the jigsaws. As these show the dragon logo, they should have been published c. 1985 at earliest. I am thinking about trying to put a list together of publication dates and stock numbers, to see if there is any correlation. Seeing that the first two rulesets, several of the basic modules and the accessories have a "low" stock no., this might be something at the beginning, but I guess that the picture gets muddy fast. The first two digits are definitly not the publication year.


I just found out a 3rd FSV jigsaw had been published back then.
It's entitled Der Goldene Drache and picturing the D&D Air Attack art by Larry Elmore

actually on sales on some UK site (for a decent price btw) :
Der Goldene Drache / The Golden Dragon (FSV Fantasy Spiele Verlags Puzzle 750), Dungeons & Dragons jigsaw puzzle - The Shop on the Borderlands

I asked the site owner if they could provide the ref info written on the box as it doesn t appear on the site's pictures... not sure I ll get a feedback on this... but well was worth trying. I'll keep you updated if I got an answer. Having a third FSV reference may give hint on some pattern...

o_O

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Post Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:49 am 
 

Ref 8549/2

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Post Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:00 pm 
 

I just learned (from a series of Youtube videos concerning the history of it) that the german fantasy RPG "Das Schwarze Auge" (DSA for short) sold 250,000 copies of its 1984 starter box. The Dark Eye - Wikipedia Not all of those boxes saw use in play, however. Still, comparing that to the statement that 10,000 copies in total or more of a basic rulebook (like Pathfinder1 or the current D&D Players Handbook at 18,000 copies) in German is a high number of sales today, it sets a relation in size, especially if you take into account that the newer sales numbers are the market leaders by a wide margin. Even if taking into account that the RPG market has a larger number of small-press systems in print today, this is still a huge number. Keep in mind that Ulisses Spiele, publishing Pathfinder, D&D and Das Schwarze Auge (among others) is the de facto market leader, and probably takes up half of the market anyway.

D&D was estimated to be good for 3 million D-Mark when it started, the equivalent of 100,000 Basic sets. I don´t know if they actually reached that, but with the success of DSA, I doubt it. According to Werner Fuchs, one of the authors of DSA, they published two boxes and up to a dozen adventures each year, way more that D&D ever had at that time. And it was cheaper and easier available as well.

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:40 am 
 

Found out the existence of a 4th FSV ORIGINAL D&D FANTASY PUZZLE :
Drachen der Hoffnung (Dragons of Hope) (by Keith Parkinson) - Ref unknown

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:08 pm 
 

Some update about current german product prints (using the english titles for some)

Einsteiger-Set 6th print
Spielerhandbuch 8th print
Spielleiterhandbuch and Monsterhandbuch 5th print

Adventurers Guide 2nd print
Xanathars 4th print
Tomb 3rd print
Volos 2nd print sold out
Strahd seems to be still first print
Waterdeep (both) 1st print
Saltmarsh 1st print

Recently, Baldurs Gate: Descent into Avernus was released.

Mordenkainen, Apocalypse and Tiamat/Dragon Queen are announced. With the Tiamat/Dragon Queen adventures, for some reason, they only got the licence to publish the original version, not the redone version. I can´t explain why this is so. The three adventures are announced for late March, Mordenkainen for April.

Spell cards, Tarokka cards, Monster and Magic Item cards are also available in german, along with several maps and DMs screens.

The four books for younger players are also announced for late March.

The "f-shop" has an overview: https://www.f-shop.de/rollenspiele/dung ... d-dragons/

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Post Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:07 pm 
 

(deleted, outdated)


My friends Dave & Gary made a quantum leap in entertainment. Remember them.


Last edited by ExTSR on Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:49 am 
 

A fellow collector gave me three magazines as a gift (for my 50th birthday earlier this week), one of them being the german fanzine "Druidenpost" (druids mail), Issue one (there have been two AFAIK) from Oct 1985. It has a brownish cover, is sized A4 (roughly letter-sized) and 48 pages, counting the covers in. It shows throughout and on the cover illustrations on par with typical fanzine art of that era.

The Authors intention is to provide a magazine for D&D/AD&D, as they claim that they miss such a publication at that time, other rpg magazines try to cover a broader range of interests. The magazine starts out with a self-written dungeon module and continues with a short piece announcing a description of a historic city.

A five page article reviews the AD&D rules, which at that time were only available in english (and, as the author points out, will remain so for quite a while, as FSV is not too fast in getting material published). The author claims that Gygax made "errors" with D&D and did correct them with AD&D. The game, so he claims, has reached a level of complexity that could not get any higher if the game should remain playable. He continues to describe the content of the Players Handbook, and gives a glimpse how the rules work. The intent of Gary Gygax stated in the preface of the PH, to make it as logical as possible, is not fulfilled according to the author. He continues to examine the DMG, and states that you have to read it at least twice, because it is even more chaotic that the PH. The content is described in a few paragraphs. The whole article aims at readers knowing D&D already and gives them an overview what to expect from AD&D.

A two-page article containing houserules for weapons and armor encloses a two page spread of a fanart wyvern in the middle of the magazine.

Afterwards, a two-page review of the U series (U 1-3) follows. In a nutshell, the modules are seen as being not too fitting for beginners, as the complexity and the danger requires a DM and players able to handle that. But they are seen as rewarding if the challenges can be bested.

A second dungeon module fills a number of pages, followed by further reviews, of two Time Life books, and the Module O 1 "Gem and Staff" in its german translation. It points out some errors, and concludes that it was seen as interesting, and the floor plans being well-recieved in test games. The last page has a review of the "Das Große Nibelungen Spielbuch", a german-authored "Endless Quest"/"Fighting Fantasy"-like book I dimly recall seeing, if not playing, all those decades ago. The inside back cover has a preview of issue two and a call for articles as well.

The back cover has an ad for a shop in Hamburg, which points out mainly Middle Earth/MERS stuff, but has also the "Ausbau-Set" (with the exclamation "finally!") for 35 DM, and the Module O 1 for 17,50 DM - prices I recall as typical. The "new" Unearthed Arcana is offered for 55 DM.

All in all, a fanzine made with quite some effort. An interesting glimpse into the hobby at that time.

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:32 am 
 

A few days ago, a fellow collector pointed out that on the listing on the back of the german O 1 Gem and Staff module, Castle Amber is listed as being "Adventure of the year 1985". The same is printed on the german E5 to E7 modules. Probably, the german gaming magazine "Spielwelt" has an article on this in its issue #25 (Dec. 1985), as this is listed on the magazines web entry.  So far, we found nobody in possession of that magazine, and I did not want to spend 20 Euros on a copy offered on ebay. It seems that all copies of said modules (O1, E5 to E7) bear that notice.

EDIT: It was a readers choice of the best german adventures in 1984/85, Castle Amber came 3rd place. Using that in advertizing without mentioning the placement is kind of bold, but fits what I´ve heard of the CEO of FSV.

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Post Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:47 am 
 

"Fürsten der Apokalypse", "Hort der Drachenkönigin" und "Aufstieg der Tiamat" are available now, and already in my collection. Due to the Corona crisis, my FLGS has set up an impromptu delivery service, to try and stay in business. It will be a very hard time for all the local shops...

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Post Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:01 pm 
 

stebehil wrote in The history of german D&D/AD&D as I know it:"Fürsten der Apokalypse", "Hort der Drachenkönigin" und "Aufstieg der Tiamat" are available now, and already in my collection. Due to the Corona crisis, my FLGS has set up an impromptu delivery service, to try and stay in business. It will be a very hard time for all the local shops...


Do they ship to he US? If so, send me a link and I'll place an order.


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:10 am 
 

I don´t know. Ask Martina:  info (at) ReckenEcke.de I could imagine she would.

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Post Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:37 pm 
 

While sorting through my collection, I had the idea to talk a bit about small German publishers. With the German rpg scene being generally small anyway, small publishers seem a strange thing, bordering on the absurd. But nonetheless, they exist.

One of the most important small publishers, active to this day, is Mario Truant of Truant Games. Currently, he produces the Middle Earth products for D&D5e in German. He started out mid-80ies, when rpgs had a boom time in Germany. (I know, the name must ring strangely to english-speaking folk...)

There seems to be a translation of "Elven Banner" from back in 1986, one of "Pinnacle" ("Sternenhöh") and one of "Evil Ruins" ("Ruinen des Schreckens"). I only own the last one, it is from 1992 and like Pinnacle published from "Welt der Spiele", but with Mario Truant being mentioned as editor.
His own line, "Edition Troll", starts out in the late 80ies with universal (non-system-specific) adventures, several of them in the fantasy town of Gralfsee, but the later ones with more generic settings (Gralfsee can be seen as a stand-in for many fantasy towns, AFAIR). This line came to eight entries and ended around 1990. The authors seem to be German as well. Some of these adventures were apparently available as surplus, and sold re-bound with three random adventures in one cover.

In 1990, he "professionalised" his publishing, AFAICT, and had his Truant Verlag founded, publishing board and card games alongside RPG material. His publishing list in the 1990ies is quite impressive, with games such as Kult In Nomine (a bitterly sarcastic french rpg), Castle Falkenstein, Ars Magica (4th Edition), Fading Suns, Hyperborea and more. He also had a hand in the German Runequest translations of that time.
I happened to come across two short magazines with two dungeon adventures each, under the heading "Pulp Dungeons" from 1997. These are translations of short adventures by Timothy Brown, originally published under the imprint "Destination Games" in the US.

With the explosion of d20 gaming in 2000, he went in that direction as well, with translations. I know of (and own) the fighter and rogue books from Mongoose, from Avalanche Press Greenland Saga: The Lost Norse Colony (with their usual terrible covers used as well), three low-level adventures from Atlas Games (Three Days to Kill, Thieves in the Forest and The Tide of Years), and the original Freeport trilogy by Green Ronin. A solo adventure seems to be an original work, under the name "Über den Sylinthpass". This went from 2001 to 2003. After that, I´m not quite sure what happened. In 2008, he joined with Ulisses Spiele, and apparently worked there until 2013 (I´m not sure what happened to his publishing company in that time).

Currently, he offers the German Middle Earth books, and the Fantasy AGE game from Chris Pramas/Green Ronin in German, the Witcher RPG and the books on Orcs at war and Dwarves at war from Chris Pramas, and some more RPG stuff, alongside with other games.

The books from the 3.0 era are offered more or less regularly, especially the handbooks from Mongoose seem to be easily available. The Freeport Trilogy is somewhat rarer, it seems. The older products are not as easily the get a hold of these days, but the bundled adventures are sometimes still offered under the name of Trollwelt.

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Post Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:59 am 
 

Great Thread and I have to say with full respect, that the stuff I can evaluate, is top accurate.

I grew up as a kid in Leinfelden-Echterdingen, Germany and got the chance in the 80ies to playtest the first German Dungeons & Dragons rules, since my father was a close friend to a few people at the Fantasy Spiele Verlags GmbH. That was for me on on hand a truly unique experience and I could start with the first German Set and a handful of friends, the first D&D Group here in Germany (and got in many trouble from our School Dekan and catholic groups, who viewed that game as highly satanic at that time).

Thanks for refreshing all those memories, since 40 years is a very long time. If I can help, filling any gaps, please let me know.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:35 pm 
 

Relborn, if you have anything to add, feel free! I´ve yet to come into contact with anyone from truly inside FSV (admittedly, there were probably very few people there, and 40 years later, chances of finding anyone are slim indeed). Do you have any memories who was involved with FSV, or indeed, how many people worked there at all?

And I have to admit that this is the first time I hear someone had some trouble with the church due to the satanic panic of the 80ies in Germany. Most people I remember could make neither head not tails of it, but did not judge the game in any way. Care to tell more about that?

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