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Post Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:20 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:
The Katrina disaster was about state corruption, a governor who didn't call for help till it was too late and a city mayor and police chief who were not just corrupt but incompetent.


Very true and most people have no idea. It was more convenient to blame Bush for a percieved delay. Fact is, there is no way to deal that level of destruction in a timely manner (and certainly not on a federal level).


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Post Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:18 pm 
 

A great deal of the criticism was indirect. The State & National Guards are supposed to respond to national disasters, but couldn't because they were in Iraq. When the federal government eventually did organize an evacuation of Katrina refugees, it involved truckloads of Mexican soldiers to fill in. As has been pointed out on this thread, FEMA was trying to do more than it was designed to do.

Weirdly enough, most of the pre-Katrina attention directed to FEMA preparedness seems to have come from conspiracy theorists. FEMA, they claimed, was assembling the resources to put thousands of ordinary Americans into camps. Just what would be expected in a natural disaster, but as described by the the UFO crowd, these would be concentration camps for untold sinister purposes. This idea was sufficiently popular to make it into the first X-Files movie.

  

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:27 pm 
 

sauromatian wrote:Weirdly enough, most of the pre-Katrina attention directed to FEMA preparedness seems to have come from conspiracy theorists. FEMA, they claimed, was assembling the resources to put thousands of ordinary Americans into camps. Just what would be expected in a natural disaster, but as described by the the UFO crowd, these would be concentration camps for untold sinister purposes. This idea was sufficiently popular to make it into the first X-Files movie.

And the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina was used as a ploy to create the image of a federal government incapable of putting ordinary Americans into concentration camps.  We know better!   :D

  

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:34 pm 
 

sauromatian wrote:A great deal of the criticism was indirect. The State & National Guards are supposed to respond to national disasters, but couldn't because they were in Iraq. When the federal government eventually did organize an evacuation of Katrina refugees, it involved truckloads of Mexican soldiers to fill in. As has been pointed out on this thread, FEMA was trying to do more than it was designed to do.

Weirdly enough, most of the pre-Katrina attention directed to FEMA preparedness seems to have come from conspiracy theorists. FEMA, they claimed, was assembling the resources to put thousands of ordinary Americans into camps. Just what would be expected in a natural disaster, but as described by the the UFO crowd, these would be concentration camps for untold sinister purposes. This idea was sufficiently popular to make it into the first X-Files movie.


The National guard could not respond because the Governor refused to call it a federal disaster and request aid.

First I've heard of mexican soldiers in the USA. Where is the source for that?

  

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:23 am 
 

ashmire13 wrote:Not gonna happen Mike  :lol:

thanks for the offer though, so may have a word with my man Bret, to see what he can screw up!  :wink:


Well the Vikes didn't do it but I hope you do....just donated! Good Luck!

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:33 am 
 

Badmike wrote:
Well the Vikes didn't do it but I hope you do....just donated! Good Luck!

Mike B.


I've seen the result and I'm not sure if I want to watch the game now...  :(  

But it was good to see the Vikings get real close for a change!  :D

And a big thanks Mike for the donation, really, really appreciate that!!  PDT_Armataz_01_37

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:21 am 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:First I've heard of mexican soldiers in the USA. Where is the source for that?


This one's easy, as it has to do with a simple factual event. Here are the first two Google results for "katrina mexican soldiers":
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168778,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_re ... ne_Katrina

Although I was tempted to write "the source of Mexican soldiers is Mexico.  Next question: Who is buried in Grant's tomb?"

JasonZavoda wrote:The National guard could not respond because the Governor refused to call it a federal disaster and request aid.


This one's more difficult to reference, as it has to do with accusations pitched from all sides. I could list a hundred essays accusing Blanco of not responding quickly enough (or defending her), and accusing the Guard of being stretched thin (or defending them), most of which are neatly divided by the political orientation of the essayists. Too depressing.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:47 am 
 

sauromatian wrote:
This one's more difficult to reference, as it has to do with accusations pitched from all sides. I could list a hundred essays accusing Blanco of not responding quickly enough (or defending her), and accusing the Guard of being stretched thin (or defending them), most of which are neatly divided by the political orientation of the essayists. Too depressing.


So less than 200 Mexican medics and health care workers were deployed in San Antonio for three weeks to distribute aid and medical supplies? This doesn't look like anything but a goodwill gesture, and certainly not indicative that there were zero National Guard troops left around. Sounds more like a "good neighbor" gesture than anything.  Hell, I don't WANT my National Guard troops handing out bandages and hot meals anyway....sounds like the Mexican staff left them available to handle more important things.

Blanco dropped the ball, pure and simple.  Whether or not she asked for troops is a "yes or no" question, not something that has to be politicized.  If she had asked, they would have been there....the National Guard isn't a political organization but they have to obey a chain of command, of which the state's governor is the top. Hell Rick Perry (who I detest) mobilized the TEXAS National Guard before she did the New Orleans National Guard. There wasn't some sinister plot to destroy New Orleans afoot, merely bueaucratic incompetence.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:09 pm 
 

Instead of spending hundreds of millions (if not billions) of dollars on flood protection so that people can build on land that is below sea level the whole concept of "New Orleans" should be reevaluated.

Either follow the Netherlands idea of going all out to reclaim land from the sea and then protect it with layers of defenses, or allow the low laying areas to flood and create more lakefront property for the higher areas.


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Post Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:46 pm 
 

jasonw1239 wrote:Instead of spending hundreds of millions (if not billions) of dollars on flood protection so that people can build on land that is below sea level the whole concept of "New Orleans" should be reevaluated.

Either follow the Netherlands idea of going all out to reclaim land from the sea and then protect it with layers of defenses, or allow the low laying areas to flood and create more lakefront property for the higher areas.


One of the reasons a lot of the areas haven't been rebuilt is they are finally changing the paradigm in Louisiana.  Jindal is doing a good job in this regard. The old game plan used to be:

1. Dirt poor cajuns built their shacks, hovels and stilt houses right near the river (in the flood plains);
2. Every few years a flood would come along and wipe out their dwelling;
3. The Federal Government paid out millions in Federal Aid;
4. The Federal Aid was stolen by politicians working for the most corrupt state government in the United States;
5. Just enough money was paid out to the dirt poor cajun to rebuild his dwelling;
6. Dirt poor cajun rebuilds right next to the river;

Rinse and repeat.

Part of the reason the rebuilding is going slowly is that they are finally deciding not to rebuild in areas that historically flood year after year. I mean, we are talking about a city that houses built right up against the levees!

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:48 pm 
 

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:03 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:So less than 200 Mexican medics and health care workers were deployed in San Antonio for three weeks to distribute aid and medical supplies?


That was one group - another set up in Houston, a Mexican naval ship went to the Mississippi coast, & there were a few other groups as well.

Badmike wrote:Blanco dropped the ball, pure and simple.  Whether or not she asked for troops is a "yes or no" question, not something that has to be politicized. If she had asked, they would have been there


There already were some Louisiana National Guard troops in the city before the storm, so phrased as a "yes or no" question the answer would be yes. A more relevant question would be whether the preparations were enough, & did the National Guard have the resources to do the job adequately. Once we get into a debate over degrees of adequacy, it becomes politicized. Take it a step further into speculation like "If she had asked, they would have been there" & we're miles away from a "yes or no" question.

Badmike wrote:the National Guard isn't a political organization but they have to obey a chain of command, of which the state's governor is the top.


The feds attempted to take over command the National Guard response. Blanco refused to relinquish command, & their dispute further delayed things. Did this constitute a refusal for the troops? Depends on which side you ask.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:06 pm 
 

sauromatian wrote:
The feds attempted to take over command the National Guard response. Blanco refused to relinquish command, & their dispute further delayed things. Did this constitute a refusal for the troops? Depends on which side you ask.


I think we are arguing the same thing.  The entire situation was FUBAR from the word go, and it was as much a fault of the local and state governments as it was of the feds.

The fact is that the federal government has had control of National Guard troops before (by LBJ during the civil rights era) so there was a precedent. Delaying it on Blanco's part due to some sort of macho "states right" standoff was ludicrous on her part.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:42 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:I think we are arguing the same thing.


Agreed. I looked at a few sources for information on this topic, & came across all manner of crazy stuff. My favorite: "FEMA sent hundreds of firefighters who had volunteered to help rescue victims to Atlanta for 2 days of training classes on topics including sexual harassment and the history of FEMA."

  

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:26 pm 
 

sauromatian wrote:
Agreed. I looked at a few sources for information on this topic, & came across all manner of crazy stuff. My favorite: "FEMA sent hundreds of firefighters who had volunteered to help rescue victims to Atlanta for 2 days of training classes on topics including sexual harassment and the history of FEMA."


Yes I remember some Texas firefighters complaining about that in one of the local papers.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:23 pm 
 



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Post Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:58 am 
 

http://www.wkowtv.com/global/story.asp?s=11876814

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:35 am 
 

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