Old Random Thoughts or OT Chit-Chat Thread • Page 67 • Collecting General • The Acaeum

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Badmike
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Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:25 am

bbarsh wrote:
I see this general comment from time to time and I really have to wonder where it comes from. Are there some nut jobs out there who think that way, probably some. But more often than not it is aimed at conservatives, in general, who think government needs to be smaller (not gone) and taxes need to be fair (not eliminated).

And hold onto your hats, even though I am pretty conservative, I have no problems with a social safety net for those who need it. In fact, I have even volunteered and donated to several programs. My problem is with the waste, abuse and government "buy a vote" programs. Through our own generosity Americans have created an entire class of government-dependent people who know no other way of life.

Charity truly needs to begin at home. My wife does a ton of charity work on the local level, and I can tell you from personal observation that they help a lot of people the government overlooks due to bureaucracy. The "Throw money at it" solutions of the government are wasteful and instead of solving the problem tend to magnify it.

My daughter had to take food stamps (it's actually a debit card now, but everyone still calls them food stamps) several years ago when she was a single mother and out of work. She was eligible for six months of support after which she would again be evaluated. After taking the money for a few months she got a job and was able to support herself. When she went to cancel her account and turn her card in early, the employees in the office she went to were totally shocked. No one had EVER turned in their card early there. They didn't even have a mechanism to shut off the automatic payments to her account. So basically she was FORCED to spend another couple of months on the program and buy groceries (she ended up buying them and then donating them to a single mother support group). The employees told her this was because they received money based on the amount of people on the program, and the LESS money they gave out, the LESS money they would received for disbursment for the government. So cancelling the payments for any reason was just not an option unless they wanted to lose money for their budget the next year. Yes not surprisingly it's a racket to keep most people on some kind of government support for life so that government bureaucrats can keep their jobs.

Mike B.

"THE MORE YOU THINK ABOUT WHY i DONE WHAT i DONE THE MORE i LAUGH" Cougar
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mbassoc2003
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Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:28 am

The problem is that government has no interest in reducing crime.
Reducing crime results in surplus resources (police/social work/administrative) and the government cannot afford the loss of power it has over the population or the money it garners from them.

At least with drugs on the streets and crime at such high levels, they can keep the workers in place and tax them for keeping them and their businesses safe. That last thing you want is a population that learns to think for itself and stops believing all the cr@p it sees on TV.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:32 am

I really like the idea of 'food stamps' for those who need it. Here in the UK we give them cash and they are allowed to spend it on alcohol, cigarettes and mobile phones. You never see a bottom feeder in the UK who doesn't have a mobile phone or a satalite TV installation, and the majority of them either smoke, drink or do both. You can't tell me that is a good use of public money, no matter how cuddly the attitiude towards them.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

Badmike
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Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:33 am

bbarsh wrote:And by taxing it so it costs more, the drug lords are right back in business. Mike, you and I know that any time the government gets involved the costs will go through the roof. And you know the government will take complete charge of any narcotics industry. I just can't agree with legalized drugs. I don't have the solution, I guess, but I know I can't agree with the legal line of thought.

I know we disagree on this but I'm willing to try something different because as the War on Drugs enters it's 40th year with no progress made I've finally gotten tired of the same old rhetoric that has produced nothing the past four decades but billions of dollars down a rat hole. Rather than rely on the same outdated policies that are not working I'm willing to give legalization a shot in some limited fashion. You know who is really, really against legalization? The drug lords. That should tell you enough right there. Imagine how rich and powerful the Capones and their ilk would be now had Prohibition still be ongoing. I know, the government could screw up putting a thumb tack on a wall but I guess desperate people are willing to try anything to end the status quo.

Mike B.

"THE MORE YOU THINK ABOUT WHY i DONE WHAT i DONE THE MORE i LAUGH" Cougar
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"I had a collecting emergency" Nogrod
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Prufrock
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Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:45 am

mbassoc2003 wrote:I really like the idea of 'food stamps' for those who need it. Here in the UK we give them cash and they are allowed to spend it on alcohol, cigarettes and mobile phones. You never see a bottom feeder in the UK who doesn't have a mobile phone or a satalite TV installation, and the majority of them either smoke, drink or do both. You can't tell me that is a good use of public money, no matter how cuddly the attitiude towards them.

Well, we have food stamps and nothing is different. Those on food stamps still puff away on their cigaretts while talking on the cell phone.

I have a friend who was a social worker for a short time. He was in charge of the "Winter Assistance" program here in Indy. Winter Assistance is for low income folks who cannot pay their heating bills. He has told me that most of these people also asked if the Winter Assistance fund would pay for their cable and cell phone bill. People learn to put their hand out all too easily.

Martin

Badmike
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Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:46 am

Prufrock wrote:
I just cannot wrap my head around legalized heroin, crack, cocaine, etc. Crime would still happen. Crack addicts do not hold down jobs so they will be stealing and committing other crimes to get what they need.

Martin

Notice I just said legalized dope (weed). I'm not willing yet to take a leap with the harder drugs, but marijauna is by far the most utilized "illegal" drug as well as the drug most law enforcement is used to suppress. Considering you could walk into pretty much any neighborhood in America, search everyone's house, and walk out with a suitcase full of the wacky tabacky, I don't think you are rocking the boat too much to legalize it. As a society we've already been desensitized in the use of for decades and have had several presidents who used it regularly if not enthusiastically (no matter what they say publically). For those worried about people smoking it in public, etc, you already can't smoke cigs practically anywhere here in the DFW area now. I just don't see a seismic upheaval in the legalization of it....

Mike B.

"THE MORE YOU THINK ABOUT WHY i DONE WHAT i DONE THE MORE i LAUGH" Cougar
"The Acaeum hates fun" Sir Allen
"I had a collecting emergency" Nogrod
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mbassoc2003
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Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:10 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Well, we have food stamps and nothing is different. Those on food stamps still puff away on their cigaretts while talking on the cell phone.

I have a friend who was a social worker for a short time. He was in charge of the "Winter Assistance" program here in Indy. Winter Assistance is for low income folks who cannot pay their heating bills. He has told me that most of these people also asked if the Winter Assistance fund would pay for their cable and cell phone bill. People learn to put their hand out all too easily.

Martin

If they had no welfare, people would get off their arses and work, or find gullible muppets to suck off of. Either way they wouldn't be as much of a drain on society. Yes, that means if I bring my kid up to be a lazy git, I'd have to suffer and work harder to pay for them, or cut them loose and let them learn to live a decent life the hard way. And, yes, if I bring up my kids to be selfish gits, I might end up suffering in my old age.

There are too few people in society who are willing to work and take responsibility for their own lives. We all live in a society where the layers of fat, both metaphorical and physical, are killing us off.

Fortumately for the UK, we are perhaps a couple of decades behind the US in our decline and breakdown, but I don't trust your goverment or society to find a solution any time soon, and even if you managed it, I don't trust Brittain, in its ignorant arrogance, to be willing to look to another culture and learn.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

Blackmoor
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Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:22 pm

Badmike wrote:
Notice I just said legalized dope (weed). I'm not willing yet to take a leap with the harder drugs, but marijauna is by far the most utilized "illegal" drug as well as the drug most law enforcement is used to suppress. Considering you could walk into pretty much any neighborhood in America, search everyone's house, and walk out with a suitcase full of the wacky tabacky, I don't think you are rocking the boat too much to legalize it. As a society we've already been desensitized in the use of for decades and have had several presidents who used it regularly if not enthusiastically (no matter what they say publically). For those worried about people smoking it in public, etc, you already can't smoke cigs practically anywhere here in the DFW area now. I just don't see a seismic upheaval in the legalization of it....

Mike B.

Well the ball started rolling in California last election. I am sure it will be legalized in our lifetimes.

Here in Canada possession is a small fine for the first 3 offences. Dealers still get slapped around a bit.

Games can get you through times of no money but money can not get you through times of no games!!

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:40 pm

So, getting back to what I originally asked about WalMart, do you have stores in the US that are primarily targetted towards the underclasses and those in poverty? What is K-Mart? Or do you all just shop in the same stores?

In the UK we have Aldi, Lidl, Asda and Iceland at the bottom of the foodchain. I imagine the quality of the 'shopping experience' comes doesn to where the stores are actually situated, but the target market is very specific. There's nothing quite like buying 20 burgers for 49p and feeding them to your family.

I was just wondering what the common socio-economic markers were in US society.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

Badmike
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Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:47 pm

mbassoc2003 wrote:So, getting back to what I originally asked about WalMart, do you have stores in the US that are primarily targetted towards the underclasses and those in poverty? What is K-Mart? Or do you all just shop in the same stores?

In the UK we have Aldi, Lidl, Asda and Iceland at the bottom of the foodchain. I imagine the quality of the 'shopping experience' comes doesn to where the stores are actually situated, but the target market is very specific. There's nothing quite like buying 20 burgers for 49p and feeding them to your family.

I was just wondering what the common socio-economic markers were in US society.

There is a chain called Dollar General that is a discount store usually frequented by people either in the "lower" class or those who want to save a few bucks.

Aldis just came to our area and they have a store nearby, they definitely cater to lower socio economic classes but their product is solid.

K-Mart is a step down from such discount stores as Target and WallMart. But in terms of quality they are all really about the same. We don't have any K-Marts in the area, but most people who shop Target shop Wall Mart and vice versa. The nearest Wallmart (and Target) to us are located in one of the most affluent neighborhoods in Texas (Southlake) so I don't think there is much of a socio-economic indicator in that regard.

It might be more location oriented here in the US. For example, a Kroger grocery store in a "bad" area of town is likely to be an unholy mess. Another Kroger in an affluent neighborhood is likely to be quite upscale.

Mike B.

"THE MORE YOU THINK ABOUT WHY i DONE WHAT i DONE THE MORE i LAUGH" Cougar
"The Acaeum hates fun" Sir Allen
"I had a collecting emergency" Nogrod
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Badmike
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Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:55 pm

Having nothing to do which the current trend of conversation, but I was doing some football research today and found out both Vince Lombardi (offense) and Tom Landry (defense) were coaches on the staff of the New York Giants in the 50s at the same time. Both went onto fame and history as coaches of the Green Bay Packers (2 SBs under Lombardi, 5 championships) and Dallas Cowboys (22 winning seasons, 5 SBs under Landry). I must have forgotten this information or never realized it. That's just insane. What did Giants head coach Jim Lee Howell do during those years, or did he even show up at all for practices??? :lol:

Mike B.

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"The Acaeum hates fun" Sir Allen
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benjoshua
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Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:02 pm

mbassoc2003 wrote:So, getting back to what I originally asked about WalMart, do you have stores in the US that are primarily targetted towards the underclasses and those in poverty? What is K-Mart? Or do you all just shop in the same stores?

In my opinion Wal-Mart and K-Mart attract many of the lower socio-economic groups. Target, Dillards, Sears and JC Penny all aim a little higher. Dollar General, Fred's, and Big Lots are some of the lowest of the low around here. Macys is upper middle class in my opinion.

Wal-Mart is slightly different in that, because it is so big, and so omni-present, you can find people from all economic strata present. It is convenient because it is one of the few places where you can find just about everything you think you need all in one place.

I hate K-Mart. The whole store is designed around the workers. Call the store and ask ANY question and you will get transferred. Ask almost any store clerk a question and they'll refer you to someone else. And, chances are, they don't have what you want any way. They sell lots of junk.

Marshall's and TJ Maxx are lower end clothing stores. Steinmart and Kohl's are a little better. Eddie Baur, Old Navy, GAP, and Urban Outfitters are a little better than that. But I am no clothing shopping expert, and probably missed the boat on a couple of examples.

Truth is worth finding and life is too short to work for money.

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:05 pm

We have a chain store called Poundstretcher, and one called Poundland, and there are a couple that sell just clothes, Primark and Matalan, but I think kids buy clothes in Primark because they are so cheap. You can but t'shirts for a pound, and trainers for a fiver. Their entire stock is made in sweatshops in china, and more embarrassingly, Primark were recently outed for using sweatshops in the UK paying illegals under £10 a day.

There is a movement of UK supporters who shop in Primark and don't mind sweatshops because they figure if the idiots will work for £10 a day, who are they not to profit from it. A middle class propmotion of exploitation if you will, but for the most part it's women who who think we should return to exploiting the desperate, and weak men who don't seem to have an opinion, but agree with their women because it's more than their life is worth to have a pair.

So Primark is maybe trying to scrap itself off the bottom of the ladder, and might manage it, because they are now targetting the poorly educated wives of the employed, rather than those on welfare.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

copycat
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Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:17 pm

There are reasons to shop at Store X as opposed to Y, "class" having nothing to do with it. For example, I can get certain things at one store and not at another. Or, maybe I want to not spend $600 a month on food when I can get the same thing (you'd be surprised, perhaps, that most of the same sources are used for "generic" and "name brand" merchandise) somewhere else for less, and usually just down the street a block or two.

Some stores I just do not like at all, regardless of what they try to cater to... like Macy's or any "mall store." Others are usually pretty good.

In the end, I go really upscale. I use a butcher (mostly for things like andouille or chorizo which I cannot find in a grocery store) and specialty shops, especially for cheese since there are a few cheese makers around here and I can get my smoked this and that if I want it.

But, umm, where I have seen the most "classism" is in jewelry stores. I'm not exactly a member of the aristocracy, but I could buy much of what they have in the store as a single item if I wanted (instead of buying RPGs, that is), yet do not care to dress up or down... I just am. They don't like that. They expect you to be a king if you come into their place and if not, then you get crap service or none at all.

Also, I think some stores, like Costco or BJs are geographically limited. In California, Costco was the low class place and I rarely went inside. New York does not seem to have them... but does have BJs. And there, it is the middle to upper-middle "class" buying stuff. They do have some great deals on ribs and beef loin.

Those who can, don't. Those who should not, do.

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:45 pm

I'm all for supporting local businesses over the big supermarkets. It is hard where I live. There is a local butcher, but he no longer has a shopfront, so you can only really buy from him if you know him, or if you buy from the local store which he supplies. And we have no more local bakeries, florist, fishmonger or any of the other stores we used to have in the villages around me.

The supermarkets have killed off all the local businesses except the village shop and the Post Office.

That said, I will not trust a 'generis brand' that will not confirm where it is manufactured or what quality stander they have chosen to follow.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

ashmire13
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Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:03 pm

http://www.flickr.com/photos/yahooedito ... 5647230066

Interesting photos of the eclipse...

Not mine though!

Rolls a '3'

"Did I hit.....?"

FormCritic
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Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:22 pm

serleran wrote:In California, Costco was the low class place and I rarely went inside.

What?

Costco requires an annual membership fee! That's a bar right there to most low-end shoppers.

Costco sells name brand food items at bulk prices that lower the cost just slightly. Their main clientele is middle and up-scale shoppers who buy luxury and convenience items of good qualtiy and somewhat reduced price.

Costco is a yuppie shopping experiece. I go there for specific items and try to discipline myself to get what I want and dash out before I can spend too much.

K-Mart is disappearing in the Northwest. Their low-quality items, dilapidated buildings and terrible service left them vulnerable to Walmart and Target.

"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

copycat
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Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:34 pm

A small yearly fee, when you have 14 people collecting welfare or getting food stamps, is not really a big deal. I know many "families" who did exactly that...

Also, Costco sells in bulk. Almost everything in bulk. That's great if you have 9 kids to feed or you're running a restaurant. Of those two, only the second option is not "low class."

I would never say Costco is a "yuppie" store. Sure, you can buy DVDs and some electronics pretty cheaply... I got my flat panel TV at a BJs, but I would not say it is anywhere near the same quality I could have gotten had I bought from somewhere else. But, it does what it was bought to do, and at about 1/3rd the price so I don't really care.

Like I said... its probably about geography. Or, more likely, the socioeconomic demographics which is pretty much a major part of social geography.

Those who can, don't. Those who should not, do.

Last edited by copycat on Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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