As the dwarfs of my world would chant... invasion, invasion, invasion.

Badmike wrote:
As much as I dislike him I don't blame him for this.  Unlike say Al Gore, he didn't campaign for the award and it was obvious it caught him completely by surprise. He realized it was completely undeserved and a political statement by foreign countries. To his credit he didn't seem to use it to his advantage in any way, not that he could since everyone in the US rolled their eyes at the obvious attempt of the International committee to influence public opinion and pat us on our collective heads...

Mike B.

No, I'm not blaming Obama.

It wasn't his doing.  It was the Nobel Peace Prize that looked stupid.

mbassoc2003 wrote:What I was trying to say is that...

Probably a case on my part of ignoring the US/UK differences. My comments were ultimately directed to the US factions who believe in the complete privatization of government & abolition of taxes, while yours were directed toward the specifics of your own society. Actually I know very little about who uses the UK welfare system & how. In the context of Texas, where social benefits are fewer,* reducing them sounds more brutal.

*If you follow Acaeum political discussions closely, you know that someone who applies for government assistance in Texas is provided with one (1) pickup truck & one (1) shotgun (sidearms are issued at birth). Providing fuel for the truck is not necessary, as everyone here owns their own oil refinery. The subsequent mission of self-reliant frontier justice requires a truck because there is no taxation to build roads; for lack of an education system no one would be able to read the street signs anyway.

We just need more love

benjoshua wrote:This conversation is taking a slant I can't completely agree with.  I am all for hard work and earning what you get.  I am uncomfortable with welfare on several levels because the current system encourages people to leech off the system for example.  But all people are connected and what happens to anyone of us impacts those around them.  Yeah, that's a liberal statement if I ever heard one, but to completely discount it is a mistake.

We could build a wall between the US and Mexico and place all kinds of weapons and barriers from invasion, but to think that's going to protect us from their problems is just a crazy as the French trusting in the Maginot line.  And the Mexicans are not the only ones to fear as many other countries and cultures would love to flat out destroy us.  The Taliban and Al Qaeda are open about our excesses and evil.  The Mexicans want our money through sales of drugs and these Islamic extremists want our society to submit to Allah or whatever.  In both cases I'm sure a lot of Americans are asking, "Why don't they just leave us alone?" Or, "Why don't we just nuke them so they'll leave us alone?"

Merry Christmas!  

The problems in Mexico, including illegal immigration, are important to me not just because I am next door to Mexico here in Texas.  My son in law's parents were illegals that were given citizenship in the general amnesty issued by Reagan in 1986. Anywhere you go in Texas it's impossible not to be confronted by the situation. Further confounding the solution is that everyone you run into here, except for a few hardcores, is in general supportive of the illegal's plight and has no problem hiring them for yard work or in a restaurant; however, in theory they are opposed to illegals coming across the border for ANY reason.  In general, they support the "good" alien that comes across the border, works hard, speaks English, keeps out of trouble, makes money and sends it to his family and uses the rest to support him or herself; conversely, they are opposed to the "bad" alien that sneaks across, commits crimes, never learns to speak English, uses his money to drink  and wreck his uninsured car into your car, uses welfare or food stamps to support him or herself while having "anchor babies", and in general becomes a burden to be supported by your tax dollars.  It's sometimes difficult to reconcile the two visions as like anything in real life their are few absolutes.   I've met people that will rage against illegals coming across the border, but at the same time  employ an illegal maid, housekeeper or yard worker....and when you point this out they protest that Jose or Maria is "different" and not like the "typical lazy Mexican just trying to steal money from the government".  Everyone here personally knows a hispanic who is a success story and whose kids now go to school along with their own kids....when you put a personal spin on the story suddenly the anti-illegal guy gets all fired up when you are talking about deporting "their" neighbor Juan and his family or "their" favorite mechanic Miguel.  It's some of the most schizophrenic shit you have ever seen.

I won't even get into the issue that many American industries (particularly the fishing, chicken processing and farming) make blatant and excessive use of illegals while looking the other way, pretending they aren't committing crimes while underpaying their illegal workforce to make huge profits. It's just this side of slave labor and big corporations are profiting from it while not actually helping out the illegal alien in any way except for a paycheck (no insurance, education, or path to citizenship is part of the package).

Look, if I lived in Mexico and wasn't part of the privileged upper class, I wouldn't live there. Who can blame them?  In Mexico, drug lords run the country murdering thousands daily (more murders in the city of Nuevo Laredo this year than in the ENTIRE state of Texas), the Mexican courts are corrupt and often arrest and jail innocents that do not get the benefit of counsel, corruption is a part of the entire way the country is run and everything is available for a bribe, jobs are non-existent and when available don't even pay a living wage, etc etc.  

The US sends Mexico billions of dollars in aid each year, and we have less and less to show for it.  Drug crime is at an all time high despite the money sent to them for enforcement.  It's only a matter of time until it spills across the border, and unlike forays into the rest of the world, you are NOT going to see American troops in Mexico EVER, which means it will never get better.  We have a ticking time bomb to the south of us that is only getting worse and worse without a solution in sight. Building  a wall and hoping that keeps everyone out is ludicrous.  If we shipped 10,000 national guardsmen to the border tomorrow with instructions to shoot on sight anyone crossing the border it wouldn't help one iota, as it does nothing to solve the underlying problems of poverty that are destroying the country of Mexico.  Sending them billions of dollars does not help either....corruption steals the majority of the money before it ever helps out anyone.  Increasing penalties for drug use is ludicrous; every politician, law enforcement official and rich white citizen of the US knows at some point it will be their son or daughter caught with a pound of weed or a few grams of heroin so they will NEVER let the law be enforced equally or let the law become too harsh.  

Personally?  I would legalize dope, tax the shit out of it, and knock the drug lords back on their heels. It's the only solution I can come up with that hasn't been tried before.  Any illegal willing to serve four years in the military, or work here 8 years on a work visa without committing a crime, should be immediately eligible for citizenship and made a full fledged tax payer (forget the DREAM act, that piece of legislation is riddled with exceptions and loopholes out the wazoo and was rightfully voted down). Oh yeh, and learning the language would be a non-negotiable condition of ANY sort of citizenship legislation. The idea you can become a citizen of a country, ANY country, without speaking the language is pure idiocy.

Mike B.

benjoshua wrote:
Here's where the rubber hits the road for me.  I go to places in the world where there are needs, and I take young people with me to educate them about the world and its needs.  I leave for Haiti in less than two weeks with fourteen college students, many of whom have never left this country.  I'm not taking them there to be shocked, even though they will be.  I'm not taking them there so they'll feel better about themselves because they did some good deeds.  I am confident that once they see the need, their love and compassion will kick in and see that they can be a part of making their world a better place.  I won't have to teach them a thing. They will gain a connection to complete strangers.  It's one of the qualities that's just in human beings.  

We could get in a discussion about how there are lots of other things in human beings, but the bottom line for me, and my whole point here, is that humans are connected, and I hope all of us, individuals and governments, can work to help each other.  

I am not saying what I'm doing is what you should be doing. I am not your conscience.  I am also not endorsing any government solution, but to think the government should have nothing to do with these issues is a mistake in my opinion. I am also not so naive as to believe we can help everyone or that any government can do it all. Crap happens.

Merry Christmas!  

Merry Xmas to you as well  

I agree with much of your post - I have travelled a lot, and one really does see that kindness and generosity of spirit are close to being a universal constant amongst people, regardless of where you live.  And while I certainly do think that all governments & political systems could do with reform (the UKs included!) I am not persuaded by unfounded assertions that political & financial collapse is around the corner, or that the end is nigh.  For example, in Europe we are going through some challenging economic times, but we have pulled through worse in recent decades.  

And in any case, everything is generally made better with a good strong cup of tea.  

Badmike wrote:Look, if I lived in Mexico and wasn't part of the privileged upper class, I wouldn't live there. Who can blame them?  

This is the exact problem. There is no incentive to stay in Mexico. The Mexican government does nothing to help matters. This leads back to my point about locking down the border and returning illegals. I know this sounds evil, but the Mexicans have to fix their own country. They have to build a better country and home. The Mexican government loves the one way door to the U.S. because they know they are avoiding a situation where the masses eventually revolt. They keep the status quo. I want a prosperous Mexico. It is good for them and good for the U.S. It is a win-win situation. But that will never happen if Mexico has a built-in safety net to avoid real change - the U.S.

The US sends Mexico billions of dollars in aid each year, and we have less and less to show for it.  

See my first point.

Personally?  I would legalize dope, tax the shit out of it, and knock the drug lords back on their heels.

And by taxing it so it costs more, the drug lords are right back in business. Mike, you and I know that any time the government gets involved the costs will go through the roof. And you know the government will take complete charge of any narcotics industry. I just can't agree with legalized drugs. I don't have the solution, I guess, but I know I can't agree with the legal line of thought.

There is no way legalising drugs and taxing them will push the price beyond it's current 1500-2000% profit margin. And there is no way that the expence of administering the system will cost more than a fractions of what the US spend currently on policing the current distribution networks.

If the government can contol the system and provide it at 50% of the cost, and at the same time cut the money expended on crime and the levels of crime in the US, no amount of tree hugging and cuddling criminals can justify not doing so.

I can understand the US govt. being too scared that the soft underbelly in the US won't vote them in if they make certain changes, and I can see that they are more interested in power and lining their own pockets than doing good or serving their country. We have the same problem in the UK with all the liberals who want to let criminals out of prison and give them money so they can make their lives better.

For those who think that legal drugs (Light ones at least, like Marijuana) will cost more even after taxes than illegal drugs are wrong.
Look at Prohibition.
USA 1919-1933…
Franklin D. Roosevelt was in office when the law was repealed.
When alcohol was illegal it was expensive and at times DANGEROUS to consume with no regulation.

Once prohibition was repealed alcohol was cheaper and safer and with the taxes the government made from the "Heavily Taxed" legal sales the government suddenly had a HUGE Surplus of funds to spend.
The money stack was made even bigger not having to enforce prohibition in the first place.
While it may not seem much now, it was a huge stack then; by the late 20's the government was spending hundreds of thousands to enforce that one law.

Of course being the government it was not a hard to find new ways to spend that sudden new influx of funds.

Seems interesting to me that immediately after the end of prohibition, the welfare state began.
I guess someone had to help support all those out of work moonshiners and bootleggers.