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Post Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:59 am 
 

Pipswich
Now, I can't imagine why this would get you so upset.  Clearly, you are a responsible seller who is experiencing some of the same unfair crap that I do.  My original post was about the deadbeat sellers, not about the ones who work hard and get beaten down by unscrupuous buyers.  I certainly know that happens and it doesn't seem to get any better


I was so pissed off by your original response that I avoided the site since that time because its holiday time.

The entire purpose of ebay's feedback/DSR system is their idea that it would create transparency. It has accomplished the exact opposite. Sellers, are now left completely in the dark. They have no way to defend, let alone monitor, their feedback rating.

Buyers on the other hand are assassins in the dark. The entire system is now rampant with the buyer fraud that you so rampantly blame on sellers. Buyer extortion might as well be a ebay tutorial course.

I have noticed several sellers, who have had excellent ratings for years, get nickeled and dimed with negs over the last year. I have bought from many, if not all, and have never experienced anything but honest professionalism. Yet all of the sudden they are getting nailed with one, two or three negs a month. Of course, the buyer's overall rating suffers little, but I am sure it still pisses them off.

I am not saying everyone is perfect and no one makes mistakes. However, simply making a mistake should not equal automatic neg. or a 0 on the DSR. Ebay has decided that sellers should be held to impossible standards and have given buyers a license to kill.

The other problem I have is your self-appointed DSR killer attitude. Why on earth would you bid on an item with a 500% mark up on shipping? Just so you can hit the idiot with a 0 out of 5. I'm sorry, I don't see the point. There is a huge difference in someone who advertises high S&H and someone who tries to ambush you with same after the sale. Ebay has created feedback vigilantes - while I will give you the benefit of the doubt, I think there are way too many buyers out there who think it is their job to cream sellers when they think it took a day too long to get their item or the shipping price "appears" to be higher that what "they" think they should be charged, especially when they got bid fever and overpaid for an item.

All that said, ebay can run their business any way they see fit. If they want to screw sellers by creating a biased feedback system, well I guess they succeeded.

My entire point is not that sellers should not have the power to protect their purchase, but that buyers have no way to protect their reputation. Simple transparency would be a great solution. Sellers, at the very least, should know who is saying something, good or bad, about them.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:49 am 
 

Badmike wrote:Not to worry, though, RPGs were sold for years on  AOL marketplace and other locales, as well as venues like Gencon....the collector community will survive.


eBay, for the most part, levels the playing field for all buyer and sellers who want to trade in any given market. Without it, and a return to dealing in disparate private and/or public sales, where only the minority are able to congregte or reach the purchase, the collectables market will suffer immesurably. New collectors will find it hard to learn and diversify their collections, will not see the passage of unusual items or the interest they bring, and not have as much opportunity to buy. Therefor, new money will find it a lot harder to enter the market outside of the bog standard TSR mainstream product. There are very few collectors with the drive and passion of say, Mars, who will chase down and source the rarities, and this polarization of the market will drive prices up, as there is no longer the guaranteed marketplace, or down, as there is no longer the demand.

The death of eBay will destroy the stability of collector's investments, and reduce the number of outlets and sources for secondhand product immesurably. I for one, hope that does not happen.


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Post Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:50 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:
eBay, for the most part, levels the playing field for all buyer and sellers who want to trade in any given market. Without it, and a return to dealing in disparate private and/or public sales, where only the minority are able to congregte or reach the purchase, the collectables market will suffer immesurably. New collectors will find it hard to learn and diversify their collections, will not see the passage of unusual items or the interest they bring, and not have as much opportunity to buy. Therefor, new money will find it a lot harder to enter the market outside of the bog standard TSR mainstream product. There are very few collectors with the drive and passion of say, Mars, who will chase down and source the rarities, and this polarization of the market will drive prices up, as there is no longer the guaranteed marketplace, or down, as there is no longer the demand.

The death of eBay will destroy the stability of collector's investments, and reduce the number of outlets and sources for secondhand product immesurably. I for one, hope that does not happen.


Forums like this one, which was not available during the early 90s when I first started seriously collecting, will continue to flourish and provide a way for collectors old and new to congregate.  I think that is a definite difference between collectors now and collectors back in the day.  

Ian, Ebay is a failed business model dictated by both their current state (quickly dropping) and by EBay itself, which has made the choice to change to a more fixed price marketplace and less as "America's Garage Sale" or the flea market atmosphere.  Whether we want it to disappear or not is immaterial.  The second hand market will survive the same way it did before ebay, with the introduction of some kind of website where gaming items can be bought and sold and people policing themselves preventing most rip offs.

I completed my collecting for the most part before ever even getting on Ebay, through outlets such as AOL marketplace and the old RPG forums on Usenet, not to mention outlets like Dragonstrove, Titan Games (the old version), and Noble Knight.  For the most part these type of outlets will survive and perhaps do better without EBay.

As a seller, I made as much money as I ever did during the heydey of Ebay. As a buyer, I was able to complete entire runs of hard to find RPG items at what I consider decent prices all through private sellers or online dealers.  And whether we like it or not EBay is changing in fundamental ways that will limit and marginalize the collecting we engage in.

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:34 pm 
 

Believe it or not, I am interested in selling some of my extra D&D items on EBay.

What is prohibitive to a (new) Ebay seller, that wasn't before?

And what advice would you give to a new Ebay seller (other than... don't do it...)?

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:45 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:Ebay is a failed business model dictated by both their current state (quickly dropping) and by EBay itself, which has made the choice to change to a more fixed price marketplace and less as "America's Garage Sale" or the flea market atmosphere.


I don't think that Ebay is a failed business model but more that it is a limited model.  Their model of collecting fees to sell and item and also to buy an item works fine for collecting truck loads of money.  The trouble comes in when you start to look at it as a publicly traded company.  Stock prices remain high because there is an expectation of growth and increasing profits.  When the business fails to change and doesn't meet the high expectations, stock prices drop and they are forced to try something new.

If Ebay did go under, then no doubt the RPG community would continue and places such as NK, Dragonstrove and even TrollandToad would no doubt prosper.  However, a lot of RPG items would also be lost.  We have seen many auctions for rares show up where the seller knew nothing about them.  If there was no easily accessible outlet like Ebay for selling these then they would probably be tossed away.  Chances are that the person cleaning out their basement who finds a box of D&D stuff will not hunt down places like NK.  In that sense fewer rares and small press items would probably come out of the woodwork.

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:24 pm 
 

Imo if ebay went under then it would be far more difficult to collect/trade D & D.  Yes, there are hardcore collectors who would carry on regardless, but a lot of the people who dabble in collecting wouldn't do with out ebay.  Ebay opens up anybodys market place to the world and so creates interest in any given item.  20p given your item a potential worlwide audience of several million.  You could never achieve this on any other website bar perhaps amazon.  It would be a great loss to this hobby if ebay didn't exist.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:40 pm 
 

Invincible Overlord wrote:Believe it or not, I am interested in selling some of my extra D&D items on EBay.

What is prohibitive to a (new) Ebay seller, that wasn't before?

And what advice would you give to a new Ebay seller (other than... don't do it...)?


Just from hanging around here and reading some of these last posts, you're already ahead of the game. A few other things:

1.  Description is the key to success. Don't assume your potential buyers know about the item just because they are looking at it. I am not talking about grading it here, but actually telling the prospective buyer what he is buying. We know a 1e PHB (both covers) by a glance. This is not necessarily the case for everyone. Take a GOOD PICTURE!

2.  Grade as accurately as possible. I have found that accurate grading actually increases the value of my auctions. Bidders know exactly what they are getting. It will, unfortunately, not protect you from the idiots who don't take the time to read it and bid off the pictures. Morons are morons.

3.  Clearly indicate shipping methods and price. Give them two options for mailing. I will no longer ship anything without delivery confirmation. That means I can't ship modules first class because you can't purchase tracking for first class mail (say individual modules). Also, first class mail is subject to this ridiculous little post office rule that it must be bendable. Yes, you read that right. The post office has the right to bend first class postage at their descretion. Their automatic sorters do it as will the post man! Do yourself a favor and go media mail and priority.

4.  Paypal: Oh boy, here we go. Paypal has many problems, but you are pretty much stuck. Paypal can place your aucton procedes on "hold" until the buyers leave positive feedback or you can prove delivery confirmation. This really sucks when you sell 20 items and your post office bill is $150 and you can't access your paypal funds.

5.  Going international: This has become extremely dangerous. Mail is taking forever and international buyers start getting a bit nervous after a couple weeks. They place a paypal hold and you are hosed. There is basically no way to obtain delivery confirmation via the usps for international mail.

6.  More international: Sending anything in a box to any foreign country can incur customs taxes unless it is a "gift." All international buyers will ask - demand - that you mark the item as a "gift" on the appropriate postal form. That makes you a criminal. End of story. Now, I am sure there are those that say it is no big deal. Tell that to the postal inspectors when they call your house and see how well that goes for you.

7.  Be positive. Don't list a bunch of rules or negative statements of warnings. Do include a clear statement that you will mail item after payment clears in X days (whatever works for you). Also, include a statement about when you expect payment.

8.  Try and send an email after auction expires to let the buyer know you know what is going on and what they can expect as far as mailing.

9.  Cross your fingers and say a prayer the buyer isn't some kind of nutcase.

10.  Timing. Set your items so the auction ends between 8-11 p.m. EST on a Saturday night (Sunday is also ok).

I'd tell you more, but my brain hurts...


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:00 pm 
 

bbarsh wrote:5.  Going international: This has become extremely dangerous. Mail is taking forever and international buyers start getting a bit nervous after a couple weeks. They place a paypal hold and you are hosed. There is basically no way to obtain delivery confirmation via the usps for international mail.

5. I've never had a problem. Any buyer who complains about shipping before at least 21 days have elapsed is probably a w@nker. There is a difference between asking 'can you confirm when you shipped this?' and asking 'Where the hell are my goods?'. Everyone knows the postal services in everyone's countries can be flaky, and for the most part, everything always turns up eventually. My tip here is, you're safe selling to Acaeum members and people you know, no matter where they live.
bbarsh wrote:6.  More international: Sending anything in a box to any foreign country can incur customs taxes unless it is a "gift." All international buyers will ask - demand - that you mark the item as a "gift" on the appropriate postal form. That makes you a criminal. End of story. Now, I am sure there are those that say it is no big deal. Tell that to the postal inspectors when they call your house and see how well that goes for you.

6. As regards stuff sent to the UK, anything marked 'used books' is exempted from customs duties. Not 'used games' or 'unsed games books' or 'antique books' or 'collectables/books', as these are all taxable: Simple 'Used Books' and we don't pay import duty.


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Post Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:41 pm 
 

! everyone loves cake!


Pipswich Peddles (and trades) for his collection!  
http://stores.ebay.com/Pipswich-Peddles


Last edited by Pipswich on Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:20 pm 
 

Pipswich wrote:bbarsh:
I have noticed several sellers, who have had excellent ratings for years, get nickeled and dimed with negs over the last year. I have bought from many, if not all, and have never experienced anything but honest professionalism. Yet all of the sudden they are getting nailed with one, two or three negs a month.

I can't possibly be responsible for these others feedbacks or explain it.  (1)All I can say is that for several years I didn't leave people DESERVING negatives feedback and now I can happily do so.  Shipping me Smoke Damaged books, misrepresented items, refusing to send things that sell for less than expected,   AND then NOT ANSWERING emails or allowing returns postage paid back to the seller will always upset me as a buyer.  And all of the above mentioned things happen routinely and now get sellers negatives and/or very low DSR's in the right column.

bbarsh:

Why on earth would you bid on an item with a 500% mark up on shipping?

(2)Because I want it and am willling (and do) pay the shipping.

That does not mean that I agree with there method of defrauding ebay and I will leave positive feedback with a low dsr in s/h.  Clearly, many buyers are exercising this strategy.  If sellers want more money for their product they should use a buy it now and set the price they want.  Not conspire to use me in an attempt to defraud ebay.  Presumably, since I am paying the bill and my total bill might be lower as a result of the deception... I do something that I suspect only a few people on the planet do. (3) Each year, I set up a dozen auctions, cancel them, pay the listing fees and then relist them normally.  If Ebay had an option to pay/donate for providing referrals, I would use that option instead.   It should be clear by now, that I don't intend to take advantage of anyone and I don't intend to be party to doing so.  

I am very grateful for what ebay has done for collecting and do not want them to go anywhere.  Not that the projection of their demise holds much weight.  Stock prices have little to do with a companies long-term stability.  Ebay is a low cost, high demand service with limited necessary overhead and a monopoly.  Just because investors overvalued the stock for years (and most other stocks for that matter) does not mean it will go away during a recession/depression.  It's a business still in it's infancy, with less governmental control than it needs, but which provides an extraordinary service.  Balancing the needs of buyers and sellers in a semi-professional environment can't be easy.  Thank goodness they try though.




My points to raise in yours are in bold



(1) If you felt so strongly about leaving a neg you should have - why didn't you?

(2) If you are willing to pay then why complain - seemingly you went in with your eyes open.

(3) Just why?



It seems to me that you are happy to be a 'faceless' adversary to ebayers you consider are bad/evil, but less willing to put yourself out there - forgive me if I have misread your tone/intent but that is the impression i get from your posts.



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Post Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:30 pm 
 

gyg wrote:(2) If you are willing to pay then why complain - seemingly you went in with your eyes open.


I think that even if you are willing to pay a high handling cost for an item, you should still rate their DSRs accurately.  Sometimes the handling fee is not transparent until you get the parcel.  Most sellers don't state that handling is going to be $10+ but you find out what it really is when you get the parcel.

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:44 pm 
 

! everyone loves cake!


Pipswich Peddles (and trades) for his collection!  
http://stores.ebay.com/Pipswich-Peddles


Last edited by Pipswich on Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:15 pm 
 

Mars wrote:

I think that even if you are willing to pay a high handling cost for an item, you should still rate their DSRs accurately.  Sometimes the handling fee is not transparent until you get the parcel.  Most sellers don't state that handling is going to be $10+ but you find out what it really is when you get the parcel.




Shipping fees are transparent on ebay.  If you thnk that the shipping is to high then you don't buy.  That is the best form of feedback.  The seller has a room full of stock at the end of a year then they know they suck. However when the shipping is apparently fair and then becomes obviously unreasonable then the seller should be hit with negs and/or bad DSR.

I don't mind paying a fair rate, which does include handling, if it is obvious care and effort has been involved; when seller charges £3 extra for a cheap grade brown envelope that is ripped to shreds on arrival is when I get peed off.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:35 pm 
 

! everyone loves cake!


Pipswich Peddles (and trades) for his collection!  
http://stores.ebay.com/Pipswich-Peddles


Last edited by Pipswich on Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:41 pm 
 

I think, if I have more stuff to sell, I'll use rpgmarketplace or just list on various forums. I'm only interested in dealing with people I can reliably trust, and not the general asshatery that is eBay. Though, I'll still use it for selling off board games... which reminds me to get my nuts in a sack and let the squirrels nibble.


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Post Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:47 pm 
 

Pipswich wrote:Or ship minis in an envelope so they arrive smashed flat.  I haven't even brought that issue up and it's common.

In the UK you get charged acording to the size and thickness of the envelope, so you're better off smadhing the minis flat before you post them.


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Post Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:52 pm 
 

serleran wrote:I think, if I have more stuff to sell, I'll use rpgmarketplace or just list on various forums. I'm only interested in dealing with people I can reliably trust, and not the general asshatery that is eBay. Though, I'll still use it for selling off board games... which reminds me to get my nuts in a sack and let the squirrels nibble.

I never had any luck selling on RPGmarketplace. I sold a ton of stuff to the same faces at the same prices through eBay, pactically all of them Acaeum members. No-one even looks at RPGmarketplace. Not even when you place classified ad's pointing to the auctions. Sad fact is, everyone has a My eBay page and everything gets bookmarked onto it. It's easy to read and navigate, and you know when things are needing your attention. RPGmarkaetplace is one of the worst front ends I've seen. It works very hard to prevent both buyers and sellers having a good experience on the site. Not unlike chewing bees.


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Post Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:01 pm 
 

Pipswich wrote: Not conspire to use me in an attempt to defraud ebay.
Defrauding Ebay? Right, because they provide so much "service" for all those fees you pay.  The only "service" Ebay provides is a some bandwwidth and a brand name that people now know and THATS it. They do nothing else for you or anyone else.  

Pipswich wrote:Ebay is a low cost, high demand service with limited necessary overhead

So why the continous fee increases without any pother benefits to go along with it?
Pipswich wrote: and a monopoly.

Oh thats why.

Pipswich wrote:  It's a business still in it's infancy,

12+ years in business is no longer in the "infancy" stage.

Pipswich wrote:  but which provides an extraordinary service.

Where?  Ebay's customer service may be the worst that I have ever seen outside of perhaps Comcast. Comcast's customer service is a joke, but Ebays doesn't even have any real customer service to be considered a joke.  It's non-existant.  I will say again that Ebay is a Multi-billion dollar company that does not have a general customer service phone bank.  That is unheard of in this day and age.

Pipswich wrote: Balancing the needs of buyers and sellers in a semi-professional environment can't be easy.

Actually, it's not anywhere near as difficult as they have made it. Allowing fairand honest feedback by both parties without the ridiculous completely abused "withdrawl" system they implemented a few years ago in effect is what is best for all involved.  Allowing only one sided feedback by either party is by definition unfair and one-sided.

Pipswich wrote: Thank goodness they try though.
 :lol:


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Last edited by bclarkie on Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  
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