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Post Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 1:14 pm 
 

Ok

My 2¢ ...

I am still debating about "Con Exclusives" in the sense of, only available for Con attendees...

Yes I would hope that some items would entice more attendees to arrive at the Con knowing it's the only place to get something... but, I also know, it's not feasible for everyone to make it, AND I can sell more and thus make more money to run the Con by making them available to everyone, even those that can not attend.

So...

That's why I am trying to make the "Con versions" just a but different... ie: maybe the Con logo, or "1st print" or something that shows it was actually purchased at the Con, but yet an identical version without the logo/1st printing can be obtained afterward for possibly a larger group.

I would also love to say that we would never produce more than 100 or X of a specific item at any given Con to help keep the items "exclusive", but again, that can defeat the purpose since once the Con has a regular attendance of 300+ people, not even the attendees all have a chance to get something...

As the Con grows, different items will be produced in quantities closer to the Con attendance. And there will always be a "percentage" of additional items "overprinted" or produced after the Con so that some can purchase those as well. It will never be some huge number that I have to sit on for years to sell. There will always be a few people that will miss out on something because we run out, and that's actually a good thing, just as long as it's not lots and lots that miss out.

That being said, there are some things that are just the way they are. The digest modules made from Special Guest modules written to run at the Con are limited in print number by the Special Guest. They "set" those limits, though as the Con grows, I am sure they will be willing to increase the limits as well.

In the case of the Mini for this year's Con, since the sculpting was donated, the mold and casting was donated, and the $$$ spent to produce the Minis was donated... I can't choose to have more of those done... it's all donated, we are very appreciative for this and will accept the 100 we get to sell to help out the Con. If these actually sell well, then we may get involved in future years with the creation of such Mini's and thus make more available in those years... we will see... I don't know the Mini market nor the collectible mini market at all ...

Starting, running, and maintaining an annual Con is all new to me, and having only attending "business cons" in the past, I don't know what all works best for a gaming Con, so I/we are learning (don't want to leave Mike out)...  We obviously want to have a great Con where people can come game with the "big names" they know, play games they like and while there, have the opportunity to get a few things they wouldn't have gotten if they had stayed home... but I also want those that really can't attend for whatever reason, but want to see the Con survive and grow, (either just because they support the idea, or possibly because they hope to attend one day) be able to "help out" in ways other than just "donating" or buying raffle tickets.

Ok, that was support to be 2¢, not $200.00 worth... sorry about that.

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Post Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 2:02 pm 
 

ScketreWhisp® wrote:Ok

My 2¢ ...

I am still debating about "Con Exclusives" in the sense of, only available for Con attendees...

Yes I would hope that some items would entice more attendees to arrive at the Con knowing it's the only place to get something... but, I also know, it's not feasible for everyone to make it, AND I can sell more and thus make more money to run the Con by making them available to everyone, even those that can not attend.

So...

That's why I am trying to make the "Con versions" just a but different... ie: maybe the Con logo, or "1st print" or something that shows it was actually purchased at the Con, but yet an identical version without the logo/1st printing can be obtained afterward for possibly a larger group.

I would also love to say that we would never produce more than 100 or X of a specific item at any given Con to help keep the items "exclusive", but again, that can defeat the purpose since once the Con has a regular attendance of 300+ people, not even the attendees all have a chance to get something...

As the Con grows, different items will be produced in quantities closer to the Con attendance. And there will always be a "percentage" of additional items "overprinted" or produced after the Con so that some can purchase those as well. It will never be some huge number that I have to sit on for years to sell. There will always be a few people that will miss out on something because we run out, and that's actually a good thing, just as long as it's not lots and lots that miss out.

That being said, there are some things that are just the way they are. The digest modules made from Special Guest modules written to run at the Con are limited in print number by the Special Guest. They "set" those limits, though as the Con grows, I am sure they will be willing to increase the limits as well.

In the case of the Mini for this year's Con, since the sculpting was donated, the mold and casting was donated, and the $$$ spent to produce the Minis was donated... I can't choose to have more of those done... it's all donated, we are very appreciative for this and will accept the 100 we get to sell to help out the Con. If these actually sell well, then we may get involved in future years with the creation of such Mini's and thus make more available in those years... we will see... I don't know the Mini market nor the collectible mini market at all ...

Starting, running, and maintaining an annual Con is all new to me, and having only attending "business cons" in the past, I don't know what all works best for a gaming Con, so I/we are learning (don't want to leave Mike out)...  We obviously want to have a great Con where people can come game with the "big names" they know, play games they like and while there, have the opportunity to get a few things they wouldn't have gotten if they had stayed home... but I also want those that really can't attend for whatever reason, but want to see the Con survive and grow, (either just because they support the idea, or possibly because they hope to attend one day) be able to "help out" in ways other than just "donating" or buying raffle tickets.

Ok, that was support to be 2¢, not $200.00 worth... sorry about that.


Doug,

This makes a certain amount of sense for you since your main business is the convention. Anything that is an extra draw is good.

What doesn't make sense to me is a company that is in business to sell modules or miniatures or anything, making some items exclusive to a convention. Even if half their customers go to that convention they end up making the other half unhappy. Yeah, thats the kind of advertising you want, screw half your customers.

I can see the logic of introducing a new item at a convention. Hopefully to score some brand new customers. And you end up getting some free advertising from convention reviews and whetting the appetite of your current customers who weren't at the convetion. But what the hell kind of sense does it make to sell 100 copies when you can sell 200 copies?

I don't see it.


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Post Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 4:06 pm 
 

Just a few points to make about this subject:

1) If you print up a tournament module to play and sell at the con and then turn around and print as many as you can sell to anybody you don't have a tournament module at all!!  What you have is one of your regular releases that was played at a con.

2) If you offer "con exclusives" to everybody not attending guess what!  That is right...they are no longer con exclusives, they are regular prints.  
Guaranteed these common items will not sell anywhere as good as the exclusives would.  

These exclusive items help promote the companies and the con.

Doug, Bill do not be swayed by the people not supporting the show.  Stay the course.  What you are doing is working.  NTRPG con is a great concept.  Keep up the exclusives and the special guests and it will work!!

No hype, lower sales, less attendance will be the result.


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Post Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 4:46 pm 
 

Blackmoor wrote:1) If you print up a tournament module to play and sell at the con and then turn around and print as many as you can sell to anybody you don't have a tournament module at all!!  What you have is one of your regular releases that was played at a con.

Like Tsojconth, y'mean? :)

(Well, OK, not that that was even sold at the con it was originally played at...).


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Post Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 4:58 pm 
 

Blackmoor wrote:Just a few points to make about this subject:

1) If you print up a tournament module to play and sell at the con and then turn around and print as many as you can sell to anybody you don't have a tournament module at all!!  What you have is one of your regular releases that was played at a con.

2) If you offer "con exclusives" to everybody not attending guess what!  That is right...they are no longer con exclusives, they are regular prints.  
Guaranteed these common items will not sell anywhere as good as the exclusives would.  

These exclusive items help promote the companies and the con.

Doug, Bill do not be swayed by the people not supporting the show.  Stay the course.  What you are doing is working.  NTRPG con is a great concept.  Keep up the exclusives and the special guests and it will work!!

No hype, lower sales, less attendance will be the result.


I'm stil not seeing how con exclusives benefit a company.

They are good for Doug to a point, because they might help bring people to the con and pay for some of the expenses. Though having guests like Erol Otus, Frank, Tim Kask, Rob, etc... are the real draw. For Doug he cuts his throat with limiting these almost completely to con attendees and con raffles and makes no money on the secondary market sales.

They are good for the con going collectors who want to have collections composed not just of good items, but items that other people can't get.

They are good for speculators who buy low and sell high. Low supply, greater demand.

But how are they good for a company selling their goods to the unwashed masses? Do they promote companies as caring about their customers? In what way? Do they increase sales by printing a lower number of items than they can sell?

I think this is good advice for a conventioneer, a certain type of collector or a speculator, but I think it is terrible advice for a company wanting to sell its products to a wide and hopefully loyal base of customers.

Just my 2c but this exclusive con business leaves a bad taste after thinking about it. It seems more and more like a pretty harsh form of promotion for a friendly convention let alone a business publishing modules. Kinda like saying 'I've got mine so the rest of you can screw off.'

Very customer friendly.


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Post Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 5:03 pm 
 

Don't worry Jeff,

We won't be printing/producing unlimited copies of anything.

Last year we chose to print 100 copies of the PotVQ, and sold about 1/3 at the Con and eventually the rest online over the course of 6 months...

While I don't think 100 is too many copies, I can see the need to print more of some things down the road.

So don't expect any large numbers of anything...

But this year, even though some things are going to be limited to 100 copies again, those sold/ordered by Con attendees will be identified as such and the remainder of the 100 will be slightly different... but still only 100 total.

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Post Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 5:10 pm 
 

Jason

I think the point of the "con exclusive" as far as stuff we (the Con) print or produce, is like you say, good for the Con... try and get people to come to get something they might not be able to get anywhere else... it's not like we are a publisher making a living printing modules....

I think the point of a "con exclusive" for a publisher, is actually to help promote the Con.

I don't think the publisher ie: Pacesetter, Black Blade etc should make a specific module ONLY available at the Con... but there is no reason Bill couldn't print 150 copies of a module like he would normally, but print 50 of them with one cover (or the Con logo or whatever it is Bill wants to do to "promote the Con") and then note that they are only available at the Con ... once those 50 are gone, they are gone... there will still be 150 copies total like always... just some will be different.

Again, I am not a publisher, but I can see that serving 2 purposes... might even help me sell more modules since some people might want 2, one of the 1st 50 printed for the Con and then one of the "regular" copies... so maybe I need to print 200 instead of 150 ?

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Post Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 5:40 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:I'm stil not seeing how con exclusives benefit a company.


Quick question for Goodman Games DCC collectors.  How many copies of Tomb of the Blind God do you have?  I think I have 5 different "con exclusive copies".  If printing the same item in more limited quantities for each con, collectors will buy more copies of the basically the same item.

Limited releases create buzz.  At the con, it brings more people to your table and maybe someone who hasn't bought your stuff before will buy it (because it is a con exclusive or rarer, etc).  They may then just resell it or enjoy it and buy other stuff after the con.  For anyone not attending, they can buy the regular version to use.

For collectors, it makes them have to hunt the item down which is half the fun of collecting anyway.  Also, always being on the lookout for it, keeps Pacesetter in the back of your mind.  I'm sure that when Pacesetter con exclusives hit Ebay shortly after the con they will also end up selling for more than cover price.  This not only raises the value of the one item but by association, the perceived value of other items sold by Pacesetter.

As much as I would like there to be an easy road to get con exclusives, I think it is clear how they benefit a company.

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Post Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 5:47 pm 
 

ScketreWhisp® wrote:Jason

I think the point of the "con exclusive" as far as stuff we (the Con) print or produce, is like you say, good for the Con... try and get people to come to get something they might not be able to get anywhere else... it's not like we are a publisher making a living printing modules....

I think the point of a "con exclusive" for a publisher, is actually to help promote the Con.

I don't think the publisher ie: Pacesetter, Black Blade etc should make a specific module ONLY available at the Con... but there is no reason Bill couldn't print 150 copies of a module like he would normally, but print 50 of them with one cover (or the Con logo or whatever it is Bill wants to do to "promote the Con") and then note that they are only available at the Con ... once those 50 are gone, they are gone... there will still be 150 copies total like always... just some will be different.

Again, I am not a publisher, but I can see that serving 2 purposes... might even help me sell more modules since some people might want 2, one of the 1st 50 printed for the Con and then one of the "regular" copies... so maybe I need to print 200 instead of 150 ?


Different covers don't bother me a bit, though it is something that is important to some collectors, stillI think that is the way to go for a company publishing modules.

That mini you have is in the way of a special commission so I don't think it hurts that company much either. They might want to do another minotaur sculpt for general sale if they see it is a popular figure.

In general though I don't see limited editions being that big a help to a con or a company. I don't believe they are drawing people to Northtex, just a cherry on top of the icing on the cake. Take away the special guests, and yeah I could see attendence drop, the games run by legendary gamers, yeah another drop, but no limited PotVQ, ehhh... who would have cared?

As far as things like DM copies, that's not limited edition, those are like Gygax's cigar box that he actually used or his briefcase, or one of the actual prop shirts from Star Trek with Shatner's actual sweat on it, well maybe not that common, he looked like a pretty sweaty guy.

I just want to say, yep this is sour grapes from a guy who can't make it to the con, but no company should want to do something that makes their customers get into a sour grapes kind of mood if they can help it.

I am also trying to give the best advice and feedback I can here, but I'm done with this.


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Post Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 8:37 pm 
 

I can see your point Jason, but I am in agreement with Doug on this...frankly, I LIKE having items exclusive to the con. Believe me, the fringe benefits here (hell, the benefits themselves) are few and far between. If getting an exclusive con release is part of the package, I'll take it.  As far as having to go to the con to get something, well if nothing else it's a little reward to the guys who support us by coming down here every year.  I realize it's not the main draw of the con, but we like to do things here that set us apart, and it's something Doug and I like.  If you (or anyone) was running your own con, wouldn't part of the fun be in getting limited edition con stuff of your very own?

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 9:41 pm 
 

I'm not mad about anything.  It's all just paper.  I'm disappointed is all.

I'd love to be able to go to the con some year.


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Post Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:42 pm 
 

Sorry I could not get back to this sooner. Baseball tournament weekend.

After reading all the posts and having thought about it for the last couple days, I have decided that current CLP members will have a single chance to purchase one copy.

My intention in making a convention special was to promote the convention. That is it. I think that getting some of these out and about will generate more interest in NTX. That is the important part for me.

I also know that not everyone can make it. So giving those people, and there will not be too many, a chance to get a part of the convention is something that I want to do. Again, I think this promotes the con.

What makes Pacesetter unique is that a large percentage of its most loyal customers are collectors. It was never my intention to alienate any of them. Also, since my print runs are very small compared to many others, I really want to be fair to everyone.

A small point to put out there also is that this tournament was originally printed for Gen Con 1989. It is not solely designed for NTX. That makes my decision a little easier.

Therefore, starting next week some time, I will send an email out to current CLP members offering them a chance to purchase one copy of the convention special module. That module is not part of the CLP program. The regular version of this module is part of the CLP. You will not need to purchase the convention special version to qualify for the year end free module. But if you are not currently CLP qualified, you will not be able to purchase the special module.

Basically, if you did not buy Q3, you are out. I have to draw a line somewhere, and this is the most fair.

Convention goers can buy multiple copies of the module (but supply will not exactly be huge). I will limit initial purchases to two copies per customer until Sunday, when no limits will apply. However, there may be no copies left on Sunday. I just have no idea how many of these will actually sell. Regardless of how they sell, any left over copies will only be available for sale at an actual convention such as Gen Con, Gary Con, Michicon, Wintercon or future NTX cons.

Lastly, I want to thank all of you guys for talking about this issue. EVERYONE has at least one solid point and I think everyone is being fair. I really do understand the entire debate, and I think this is the best answer.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

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Post Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:02 am 
 

Looking forward to purchasing both versions, Bill!  PDT_Armataz_01_34


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Post Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 12:26 am 
 

Exactly 4 weeks from now, I will have already picked up Erol Otus at the airport and deposited him at the hotel.

At about this time, I'll be unpacking the trailer into the Mars Room and moving tables around, probably be done around 0100 before I head home for some quick shut eye... then back at the hotel bright and early.

The Con is coming, are you registered ? .... did you sign up for your events ?

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Post Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:41 am 
 

bbarsh wrote:Convention goers can buy multiple copies of the module (but supply will not exactly be huge). I will limit initial purchases to two copies per customer until Sunday, when no limits will apply. However, there may be no copies left on Sunday. I just have no idea how many of these will actually sell. Regardless of how they sell, any left over copies will only be available for sale at an actual convention such as Gen Con, Gary Con, Michicon, Wintercon or future NTX cons.


ordered! 8)  :)

  

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Post Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 11:05 am 
 

The Lady at the hotel just told me that there was only ONE ROOM left at the special Convention rates.  

Now (according to her) there are NONE left, WHEW! Got in at the wire! 8O

I suspect there are other regular rate rooms left for that weekend though.


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Post Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 3:10 pm 
 

Gnat the Beggar wrote:The Lady at the hotel just told me that there was only ONE ROOM left at the special Convention rates.  

Now (according to her) there are NONE left, WHEW! Got in at the wire! 8O

I suspect there are other regular rate rooms left for that weekend though.


The regular rates aren't too bad. I think my brother got Friday and Saturday for a good price with the regular rate (but they wanted $130 for Thursday night at the regular price, so he declined).

Mike B.

EDIT:  John, you got the last dbl bed suite. There are over 20 single rooms still available at the special rate.


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Post Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 8:20 pm 
 

I bet someone like Bracton is going to buy this and wear it to the con in a couple weeks  :)

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/9076738

  
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