JasonZavoda wrote:jarloch wrote:We all have the right to free speech, only in very few cases do we have the right to be protected from the effects of private market entities disliking our speech. The 1st amendment was to protect an individual from the government, not from people deciding that they don't want someone to work for them.Is Florida a right to work state? Does Ozzie have a clause in his contract allowing it to be terminated for conduct that negatively effects the team? Such clauses are pretty standard.And clause or not it wouldn't keep it from being unconstitutional. Can you be fired for supporting the Democrats or Republicans? Can you be fired for saying you admired Mao? Could you be fired for saying you admired Jesus Christ or saying that you worshipped Odin? Private market entities are not immune from civil rights violations. As much as I disagree with Ozzie's support of a ruthless dictator I would defend his right to have that opinion and the freedom to express it without sanctions from an employer. A free society can be filled with very disagreeable opinions and if you don't defend that freedom you enventually end up with an enslaved society like Castro's Cuba. Freedom of speech is a good thing. It is also one of the shining achievements of USA society. Throwing it away when it becomes disagreeable or objectionable will cost us something more precious than I think people can understand. I say this as someone whose relatives escaped from Hungary after the '56 revolution. I understand to a great degree what the Cuban Americans in Florida are feeling. They should protest and boycott, and enjoy the freedom to do so, but also understand where that freedom comes from and why it needs to be all embracing.Don't get me wrong. I don't see freedom of speech covering incitements to riot or criminal or terrorist conspiracys, but expressing an unpalatble political opinion has to be covered. The actions of the Marlins is a crime against every American citizen and the freedom of speech we enjoy.
jarloch wrote:We all have the right to free speech, only in very few cases do we have the right to be protected from the effects of private market entities disliking our speech. The 1st amendment was to protect an individual from the government, not from people deciding that they don't want someone to work for them.Is Florida a right to work state? Does Ozzie have a clause in his contract allowing it to be terminated for conduct that negatively effects the team? Such clauses are pretty standard.
Badmike wrote:JasonZavoda wrote:And clause or not it wouldn't keep it from being unconstitutional. Can you be fired for supporting the Democrats or Republicans? Can you be fired for saying you admired Mao? Could you be fired for saying you admired Jesus Christ or saying that you worshipped Odin? Private market entities are not immune from civil rights violations. As much as I disagree with Ozzie's support of a ruthless dictator I would defend his right to have that opinion and the freedom to express it without sanctions from an employer. A free society can be filled with very disagreeable opinions and if you don't defend that freedom you enventually end up with an enslaved society like Castro's Cuba. Freedom of speech is a good thing. It is also one of the shining achievements of USA society. Throwing it away when it becomes disagreeable or objectionable will cost us something more precious than I think people can understand. I say this as someone whose relatives escaped from Hungary after the '56 revolution. I understand to a great degree what the Cuban Americans in Florida are feeling. They should protest and boycott, and enjoy the freedom to do so, but also understand where that freedom comes from and why it needs to be all embracing.Don't get me wrong. I don't see freedom of speech covering incitements to riot or criminal or terrorist conspiracys, but expressing an unpalatble political opinion has to be covered. The actions of the Marlins is a crime against every American citizen and the freedom of speech we enjoy.Well he is an employee of an organization. Should the president of McDonalds get away with saying that Whataburger is much tastier? If I am a manager at Dell, what would happen if I came out and said Apple is really making better computers? Freedom of speech is one thing, but letting someone destroy your product is lunacy. Cuban Americans make up a huge fan base of the Marlins. Having someone out there basically saying their feelings are worthless does a lot of damage to the bottom line, and in the end it's a business. You are not looking at it as an employee saying something that will hurt the company he works for....should we protect speech that deliberately ruins a place of employment? I know if I'm an employee of the Marlins that gets laid off due to low attendance that can directly be traced to Ozzie's ranting, I'm going to be pissed off. In the end, Ozzie signed a contract, just like any athlete (or many employees), and that probably has a personal conduct clause. He can have his own opinions on his own time, not as manager of the Marlins.Mike B.
JasonZavoda wrote:And clause or not it wouldn't keep it from being unconstitutional. Can you be fired for supporting the Democrats or Republicans? Can you be fired for saying you admired Mao? Could you be fired for saying you admired Jesus Christ or saying that you worshipped Odin? Private market entities are not immune from civil rights violations. As much as I disagree with Ozzie's support of a ruthless dictator I would defend his right to have that opinion and the freedom to express it without sanctions from an employer. A free society can be filled with very disagreeable opinions and if you don't defend that freedom you enventually end up with an enslaved society like Castro's Cuba. Freedom of speech is a good thing. It is also one of the shining achievements of USA society. Throwing it away when it becomes disagreeable or objectionable will cost us something more precious than I think people can understand. I say this as someone whose relatives escaped from Hungary after the '56 revolution. I understand to a great degree what the Cuban Americans in Florida are feeling. They should protest and boycott, and enjoy the freedom to do so, but also understand where that freedom comes from and why it needs to be all embracing.Don't get me wrong. I don't see freedom of speech covering incitements to riot or criminal or terrorist conspiracys, but expressing an unpalatble political opinion has to be covered. The actions of the Marlins is a crime against every American citizen and the freedom of speech we enjoy.
Kingofpain89 wrote:Why did I think you were Puerto Rican?
Rabbit_67 wrote:More on Ozzie.http://www.visionandvalues.org/2012/04/ ... l-in-cuba/
carrejo wrote:Us cuban-americans are sensitive on the subject especially those of us that had family members killed due that a$$hole.
sauromatian wrote:Sorry, I don't mean to single you out, or your people. But would you really extend the same courtesy to everyone else? The Irish have their historical grievances against the English, the Armenians resent the Turks, everybody's got some ax to grind. If we indulged it all equally, we'd live in a state of primitive tribal warfare. Yet some animals are more equal than others.
carrejo wrote:sauromatian wrote:Sorry, I don't mean to single you out, or your people. But would you really extend the same courtesy to everyone else? The Irish have their historical grievances against the English, the Armenians resent the Turks, everybody's got some ax to grind. If we indulged it all equally, we'd live in a state of primitive tribal warfare. Yet some animals are more equal than others.I see what your saying, and to be honest i personally wasn't asking for Ozzie to get fired or suspended, i just felt he made a dumb mistake considering his position within the organization and who their main "customers" are.You have to understand that my hatred for castro runs very deep, and I don't think rationally when it comes to discussions regarding him for the following reasons:- my uncle was killed by firing squad in the early 60's- my father was imprisoned for more than 10 years for simply not wanting to be a commie- my family has been and still split for more than 30 years since they are not allowed to leave the island.The best thing that happened from all this was that i came to the best country in the world (U.S), in my opinion.Jorge
Badmike wrote:Well, the one good thing about living into the 21st century, is we'll finally see that decrepit old psychopath Castro die. Cant' be soon enough. Hopefully after he does, it will lead to the disintegration of the totalitarian rule on the island (look at what is already happening to North Korea since the death of Jong, I finally have hope in a few years things will deteriorate to the point where communist rule will collapse entirely)Mike B.
rhynne wrote:Hey everyone,Ok completely off topic, and most likely will only apply to the guys in Europe.Are any of you going to catch the Stone Roses reunion this year?I was just curious how many on the site were fans of their music way back when.Was considering catching them when they come to Hong Kong in July.Best regards,Ronald
Badmike wrote:Their albumb "The Stone Roses" is probably one of my favorite albums of all time.Don't know if they are coming around here, but I doubt they will be able to catch the same kind of lightning in a bottle they did 20 years ago...maybe it's better just to listen to their cds.Mike B.
